While I can only imagine this question has been specifically asked before, I’ve had precious little success in searching for those threads Amy_Beaupre does seem to have mentioned it a few times, like in this post:
Quote: You can apply as a degree-seeking undergrad for a second degree. This makes you eligible for regular undergrad financial aid. There’s nothing that says you have to finish this degree…
Is Amy’s experience universal? My plan is to complete an unofficial post-bacc at the University of Central Florida. I’m being told now that one cannot take coursework as a non-degree-seeking undergrad (even for a second degree), and that I would have to declare a major. If I declare a major in order to gain access to the necessary coursework, and don’t complete it - does that reflect poorly on me? Is that something that would be questioned by an AdCom? Thanks!
That’s is exactly what the state school where I did my post-bacc had us do. It wasn’t “under-the-table” at all. The school did this administratively so that we could be eligible for undergraduate tuition and financial aid.
The best course of action would be to schedule an appointment w/ both the pre-med advisor & an admissions counselor. What ever you do, be honest & above-the-table…not that you would get caught, but I would have serious misgivings about someone who was willing to sacrifice their integrity - not to insinuate that you would. More than likely, you will be far from the first person to do something like this & one or both of those people can assist you in orchestrating things. Regarding non-degree status - as long as you already have a BS or a BA level degree, then not completing a declared major is unlikely hamper you. However, for some med schools, they are not as fond of someone in a formal graduate program dropping out to enter med school. Also, be aware of the fact that most med schools do not overtly require a BS or BA. However, last stats I saw, fewer than 5% of those admitted to medical school did so w/o a BS or BA. So, that level of credentialing is if not explicit it quite implicit.
Quote: The best course of action would be to schedule an appointment w/ both the pre-med advisor & an admissions counselor. What ever you do, be honest & above-the-table…not that you would get caught, but I would have serious misgivings about someone who was willing to sacrifice their integrity - not to insinuate that you would. More than likely, you will be far from the first person to do something like this & one or both of those people can assist you in orchestrating things
Dave, I agree with the talking to both pre-med advisors and admissions counselors and being honest about what you are wanting to do. However, I don’t think that declaring a second undergrad degree with no intentions of finishing it in order to do the pre-reqs is indicative of a person who has no integrity at all. At some schools, this is the only way to do enroll for undergrad courses when you already have a degree. There are scheduling and financial aid issues for deciding which way to apply. (Financial aid issues below).In all honesty, I don’t think universities really care which way you apply. They get the same amount of money from tuition either way. One of my good friends from post-bacc land and I have two different stories - she wanted to go to pharmacy school, I wanted to go to medical school. When I asked about how to enroll and take the undergrad classes, I was told I would need to apply as a continuing ed student. My friend was told to apply (and sent an application for) regular undergraduate admission as a degree seeking student. My advantage - my application fee was $30 and a very simple form (I didn’t even have to submit a transcript). My friend’s application fee was $100 and she had to get transcripts, track down old test results (ACT/SAT), and fill out an extensive application with essays. As mentioned below, she probably came out ahead in financial aid land. Yes, I think you should be honest with the admissions counselors. If they say the undergrad and continuing ed student routes are both a possibility at the school you are applying to, then you need to weigh the pros and cons. I discussed the financial aid aspects pretty thorougly in a post that I quoted again below. Another consideration is scheduling - at some schools continuing ed students are given a high scheduling priority (at mine it was behind graduating seniors and honors students). At other schools, non-degree students are the last to register. If you are needing to take the lower level pre-reqs, this is a HUGE deal because you may get closed out of classes you need. Generally, as a “degree-seeking” student, you will have advanced standing because of your previous hours and will be near the top of the totem pole in scheduling land. So - ask those questions. If the school you want to attend does not offer a non-degree student option, then I see no problem with enrolling as a degree-seeking undergrad. Medical schools primarily care that you 1) have the pre-reqs and 2) have a degree. They don’t really care what kind of hoops you had to jump through in order to go back after your original degree and take the pre-reqs. Amy
Quote: There are three different ways of getting financial aid for the pre-reqs. 1. You are allowed financial aid for 12 CONSECUTIVE months to take courses that are pre-requisites for admission into a professional program. You can enroll as a continuing ed/non-degree student (saving $$ and headaches in applying). My school had a form that had to be filled out by an academic counselor verifying that the courses I was taking were required for admission into medical school. The downside - 12 consecutive months. If you don’t take classes one quarter, you don’t gain another quarter of FA eligibility at the end. Also - it is difficult, almost impossible to take all of the pre-reqs in 12 months unless you are in a structured post-bacc program. This is due to the requirement for two years of chemistry. It can be done, but it makes for a hellishly brutal load (imagine taking biology, physics and chemistry together all year, with labs and then taking organic chemistry in the summer.) This is how I did my pre-reqs. The fact that I already had a master’s degree didn’t matter. 2. You can apply as a degree-seeking undergrad for a second degree. This makes you eligible for regular undergrad financial aid. There’s nothing that says you have to finish this degree. I know a couple of people who have done it this way. This eliminates the 12 consecutive month constraint. However, there are some limits about how many undergrad credit hours you can receive financial aid for. They also tend to not give you much notice that you have capped out your undergraduate financial aid, and I know people who have found themselves in a pinch because they found out with rather short notice that they weren’t going to get any financial aid for their last semester/quarter because they had taken their limit of undergrad hours. I also don’t know how this applies to people who have started Master’s programs. The people that I know who chose this route only had undergrad degrees. 3. If you have good credit, you can borrow from private sources. There are a lot less restrictions, but the interest rates are generally higher. I suggest that you talk to a financial aid counselor (or two or three) about your eligibility for federal loans. If they don’t mention the 12 months thing, ask about it, because it exists. If you are leaning toward the claiming another undergrad degree option, ask if your master’s work affects that and how many hours you are eligible to take. I suggest asking multiple counselors because sometimes they are misinformed or inexperienced. Although many do an excellent job, I suggest that you double or triple check any information given to you regarding your financial aid eligibility. It’s a big setback to enroll for classes, have your course laid out, and then find out that you won’t be receiving any aid. This especially true of pre-reqs because these classes are often only offered specific quarters/semesters. Good luck with your decision.
Quote: Another consideration is scheduling - at some schools continuing ed students are given a high scheduling priority (at mine it was behind graduating seniors and honors students). At other schools, non-degree students are the last to register. If you are needing to take the lower level pre-reqs, this is a HUGE deal because you may get closed out of classes you need. Generally, as a “degree-seeking” student, you will have advanced standing because of your previous hours and will be near the top of the totem pole in scheduling land. So - ask those questions.
Amen I am having a ridiculously hard time getting the courses I want to take at Northeastern Illinois U. right now because I am registered as a graduate student-at-large. Yesterday at 4:30pm was the earliest I was allowed to try to register for summer courses - undergrads had been allowed to register beginning the Friday before that. Thinking I would have problems, I checked on class availability with some of the department secretaries, and sure enough O-Chem I and both Bio courses I was interested in were full 2 days before I could even try to register. I did manage to sign up for physics, but that was my last choice. I tracked down some sympathetic professors and have myself on waitlists for other courses, but all I can do is wait until they begin, go to them, and hope some people drop or don’t show up. I want to reiterate how important it is to ask lots of questions about how things work for different status levels, and to also do your own research on top of that. I went to speak to an advisor there 2 weeks ago lamenting my registration position, and the fact that nobody on campus wants to help a non-degree seeking student (even the advisor tried to say they couldn’t help me originally). He told me to apply as a student seeking a second bachelor’s, which would make me eligible for more advising and help with the registration. Sounded like a good idea, until I research the details myself - turns out second degree students register after the undergrads, just like a grad student-at-large At any rate, just be sure that you not only ask lots of questions, but do try to confirm all of the answers you are given - either through another source at your school, or an official website, or whatever else might be available. That wasn’t the first piece of misinformation I’ve been given by someone at NEIU when it comes to registration, and I’m sure it won’t be the last at this rate…
Quote: …Also, be aware of the fact that most med schools do not overtly require a BS or BA…
This is true in concept more than reality. Until a few years ago, Stanford didn’t require a BA or BS to be admitted to medical school. There was a caveat, however: One could not graduate from Stanford Med School without an undergrad degree, and couldn’t complete the ugrad degree at Stanford. So if anyone is considering trying to get into med school without an undergrad degree, know that your options are limited, and look for caveats. Cheers, Judy
Thanks for all the advice. I’ll definitely need to get in (further) touch with admissions and advising, and I’d feel kind of sketchy if I were not up-front with them about my plans. As Amy said, this seems to be my only way to take the pre-undergrad reqs I need, as I already have a BS. I already jumped through all the hoops to find my old transcripts and SAT grades and AP scores - nearly $40 to look up one old score, nice racket they have going there Though that’s a pittance in the grand scheme of med school apps, from what I hear… And speaking of jumping through hoops, I had to do some fancy tricks to even get in to my current courses. Hopefully I’ll have better luck with UCF.
Though that’s a pittance in the grand scheme of med school apps, from what I hear…