nubee

new to the site…


about me:


27 year old male. attended a community college from 2001-2003. studied ophthalmic sciences. completed an apprenticeship along with going to school part-time and became an optician. i am in love with the profession. i have been at it since i was 19 years old. however, i found myself wanting to know more. i have worked with optometrists and ophthalmologists and i have been extremely impressed by their skills. so, i decided to take the plunge and enrolled back in school. i went back to the same CC and am transferring to a university this fall. i have a 4.0 in all classes so far. officer on the honor society, science major honor society, few academic awards, scholarships, and good service record. i barely work at all now-a-days. i have taken out private loans, along with the normal student loans, so i can put all of my focus on studying. i do not live with family; been on my own since i was 17 years old (product of a highly dysfunctional family! lol). speaking for myself, i do not want to “chance” not getting in to med-school because working hurt my grades. i am a little torn between going to optometry school or going to actual med-school. optometry admission is similar to dental school admissions. from the get-go i just wanted to do optometry. now going to med-school is looking appealing. if i went i would want to get into ophthalmology. the only thing that makes me hesitant is the time frame. i am 27 now. not married, no kids, no ties to anything at all really…it just seems like a REALLY long time. 2 more years of UG, 4 years of med, + 3-4 years of residency (correct me if i am wrong…). i dunno. hopefully, i can get some mentoring/guidance here!! THE END

Welcome! You sound sharp as well as focused, and both will serve you well no matter where your path leads.

A tough decision. Optometry is a shorter path. I don’t know how the competitiveness of optometry school admissions compared to med school admissions - it may depend on how many optometry schools you have in your area. I do know that Ophthalmology residencies are VERY competitive, due to both the low number of training spots and the perception of it as a lifestyle specialty.


Can you talk to the optometrists/ophthalmolog ists you know about what they perceive as the pros/cons to each area and then make up your own list of pros/cons?


Good luck and welcome!

  • pi1304 Said:
Welcome! You sound sharp as well as focused, and both will serve you well no matter where your path leads.



thank you! i hear that from a lot of people but yet i still have my doubts...maybe you can identify?
  • persnickety Said:
  • pi1304 Said:
Welcome! You sound sharp as well as focused, and both will serve you well no matter where your path leads.



thank you! i hear that from a lot of people but yet i still have my doubts...maybe you can identify?



Absolutely! It's another one of those things that often feels more 'unique' than it really is - we all have our doubts and insecurities, and many of them are right up the same alleys.
  • Emergency! Said:
A tough decision. Optometry is a shorter path. I don't know how the competitiveness of optometry school admissions compared to med school admissions - it may depend on how many optometry schools you have in your area. I do know that Ophthalmology residencies are VERY competitive, due to both the low number of training spots and the perception of it as a lifestyle specialty.

Can you talk to the optometrists/ophthalmolog ists you know about what they perceive as the pros/cons to each area and then make up your own list of pros/cons?

Good luck and welcome!



i would say that optometry school is "easier" to get into. again, i would equate it to dental school. not "easy" to gain admission to, but possibly not as hard as traditional med-school. the GPA's are typically around 3.4-3.5. however, there are fewer optometry schools in the USA, around 17 i believe. i have worked with optometrists and ophthalmolgists since i started in the business, so i know the deal. the only thing that scares me about med-school is that if i went, i would want to do ophthalmology. i couldn't be flexible. how does the process of med-school work? there are 4 years of school, then 1 year of internal medicine rotations, then you go on to specialize? how do you get into the residencies and specialties that you want to? could you get stuck and have to settle for an area you may not want to specialize in? i.e. i graduate med-school but can't get into an ophthalmology residency, so i end up being a psychiatrist?

I wouldn’t worry too much about how long it would take you to finish school.


In 10 years you are going to be 37. The question you need to ask your self is what do you want to be doing in 10 years.


Good luck with your choice!

  • persnickety Said:
the only thing that scares me about med-school is that if i went, i would want to do ophthalmology. i couldn't be flexible. how does the process of med-school work? there are 4 years of school, then 1 year of internal medicine rotations, then you go on to specialize? how do you get into the residencies and specialties that you want to? could you get stuck and have to settle for an area you may not want to specialize in? i.e. i graduate med-school but can't get into an ophthalmology residency, so i end up being a psychiatrist?



Actually, there are four years of medical school - two preclinical years and two clinical years - and then residency. The traditional "intern" year has kind of been assimilated as a part of most residencies and isn't necessarily a separate year prior to your specialization. I believe most med 3 students take similar required rotations (internal medicine, ambulatory, psych/neuro, ob/gyn, surgery, peds are common). Med 4 usually has a couple of required rotations and is mostly electives. You start applying for residencies early in med 4. You apply to residency programs (in one or multiple specialties - more on that later). Programs invite people to interview. You rank your programs in order of preference and the programs rank the applicants. A computerized "match" is held. Students find out in March if they matched, and if they matched, where they will be doing there residency at.

Now, there are some wrinkles to the whole match thing. Some residencies require that you do a "transitional" or "intern" year first and then you start your specialty residency. In this case, you may do your first year at a different locale than subsequent years. It is also possible to match for your transitional/intern year but not your specialty. If you don't rank enough programs, you might not match at all. In that case, you have to decide if you want to "scramble" into a one year spot or reapply the next year. In the "scramble", unmatched students contact unfilled programs in an attempt to find a residency spot. In ophtho, they would typically not have unfilled spots, so if you chose to scramble, you would be scrambling into either another specialty or a transitional year.

It sounds horribly complicated because it is. The short answer is yes, it is entirely possible to graduate from medical school and not be able to match into your desired specialty for residency (and you can't practice without completing a residency).

Note - the above applies to allopathic (MD) residencies. The process and competitiveness may be different for DO grads (perhaps one of our DO people can give some details).

Hopefully, I didn't screw up too many details about the allo match process there. If I did, hopefully one of our residents will correct any errors.

Welcome!


Don’t focus on how long because 10 years will come and go before you know it. Like DocGeo said, what do you want to be doing in 10 years? Focus on what you want not how long it will take you to get it.


I found a great book after the conference that I’m really enjoying. “The Power of Focus”. It’s really good and I’m really taking my time to digest it. See the thing is if you worry about how long something takes and you don’t do it…then when years pass and you decide to do it then you’ll start looking back at where you’d be at if you’d only started back then.


THIS is your back then. So get moving and go for it. If you don’t like the feeling of being a unique little flower and just want to fit in then so be it. The issue is as a nontrad we’re all unique and bring unique things to the table. Embrace your unique status because we don’t have it for very long. Once accepted to med school and beyond your a physician just like anyone else.

Emergency wrote:


“Some residencies require that you do a “transitional” or “intern” year first and then you start your specialty residency.”


I am most interested in Emergency Medicine. I have read that it calls for a 3 year residency period. Does it require that I do a 1 year internship and then do a 3 year residency?


Also how hard is it to match into the residency? I am not particular into getting into a specific hospital, etc.


Thanks for your help.

EM has 1-3 year , 2-4 year, and 1-4 year programs. So the 2-4 require a transitional intern year.


EM was very competitive this year. At least according to the post on the EM subforum at SDN. The biggest thing I hear about residency is if your stats are acceptable the biggest factor is your personality. Can the group see themselves working with you for the next X number of years? Ultimately many residency directors are looking at the potential of you becoming an attending and are basically conducting a job interview.

  • Challenger Said:


I am most interested in Emergency Medicine. I have read that it calls for a 3 year residency period. Does it require that I do a 1 year internship and then do a 3 year residency?

Also how hard is it to match into the residency? I am not particular into getting into a specific hospital, etc.

Thanks for your help.



This information applies to allopathic (MD residencies) ONLY. DO residencies work a little bit differently:

For emergency medicine, there are three types of MD residency programs. The vast majority (100+) are 3 year programs (1-3). You match directly into the program and your first year is called your "intern" year. Three year programs do NOT require an internship year.

The next category is four year programs (1-4). Again, you match directly into the EM residency. Very similar to 3 year programs, but the program is a year longer. Some very good programs are 4 year programs: Cinci (the oldest program in the country), Denver, and UMich come to mind. I believe there are about 18 four year programs.

The final category is called 2- 4 residency programs. In this category, you match for a 1 year transitional or intern year separately from the EM program. You MIGHT match at the same place for both your transitional year and your EM years, but its not guaranteed. So here, you would do an intern year, then start your three year EM residency after that. There aren't very many of these programs.

I'll save the discussion for why you might choose one type of program over another for another post.

EM is considered moderately competitive right now. It is increasingly becoming considered a "lifestyle" specialty and applications to EM programs were way up last year. However, even with the increase, I believe nearly 99% of US allo grads who ranked at least 10 programs matched. It's kind of hard to tell from the numbers if the increase in applications was due more to greater numbers of people applying in EM or around the same number applying to EM, but applying to greater numbers or programs.

Programs on the coast and in the big cities are most competitive, with those in the midwest being the least competitive. Competitiveness has nothing to do with the quality of the program and most EM folks consider nearly all EM residency programs to be "good" programs. (I highly recommend that you DON'T ask about what are the best/worst EM programs on the EM residency forum of SDN. ;)). According to a PD I spoke to, there are some GREAT programs (in terms of training) in the midwest that aren't all that competitive because nobody wants to live in Saginaw, Kalamzaoo, Toledo, Dayton, etc.

I'll briefly try and explain what I know about DO programs: It is my understanding that osteopathic programs all require an internship year before your EM residency (or any osteo residency, for that matter). I believe most osteo EM residencies are 3 year programs. DO grads have to decide if they are going to apply to MD residencies, DO residencies, or both. If you are a DO grad, you're going to face more of a challenge trying to match into a MD program. Some MD programs don't seriously consider DO grads, but a fair amount will. I don't know all the technical details on the DO residency match process. Hopefully, one of our DO people can fill us in and/or correct any errors I made above about DO residencies. (As a side note, although DO grads can apply to MD programs, the reverse is not true. This is often a bone of contention in some circles).

I highly recommend browsing through the EM residency forum on SDN. Lots of good info there and more will be forthcoming as students start preparing to apply for next year's match and going through the process. The EM bunch can be a sarcastic crowd, so you might want to just lurk for awhile and browse past threads before asking any questions.

Hope that helps. I intend to apply in EM and have spent a lot of time researching the whole residency thing, so the MD info is fairly accurate.

Even though I will just start my pre-reqs this Fall, I have already started to research the med schools in my area (Broward County, South Florida). One of these schools is Nova Southeastern University (a DO school).


In reply to my previous post, Emergency mentioned:


“If you are a DO grad, you’re going to face more of a challenge trying to match into a MD program. Some MD programs don’t seriously consider DO grads, but a fair amount will.”


The questions below are for anyone (especially DO’s):

  • Knowing that for DO’s matching into a MD Emergency Medicine residency is difficult, are there as many DO residencies in Emergency Medicine as MD Emergency residencies? Do DO’s have a need to apply to a MD Emergency Residency program or are there ample DO residency programs to apply to? How competitive are the DO Emergency Residency programs?


    I am just trying to figure out my chances of getting into a Emergency Medicine residency if I graduate from a DO medical school?


    Thanks a lot for your help!

Hi Challenger -


From what I can tell at DO residency program search, there appear to be 40 AOA approved EM residency programs. I don’t know how many spots each of those programs have. As far as how many of them are quality or not, I don’t know.


You might also check out AOA’s student info page. This may give you some more info about the DO match process. I honestly don’t know if you can apply to both DO and MD programs at the same time or how that works. I didn’t look at this page enough to see if it gave any info on it.


I also highly recommend you browse the Osteo Students’ forum on SDN. I’m sure this topic has been discussed at length on there. It is sure to crop again in the next couple of months 4th year students start deciding on and applying for residencies.


Again, it is not impossible for DO grads to match into allo EM programs. I’m not sure if the situation will get worse for DO students as EM climbs in popularity or not.


Hope you can find some info on the above resources.

It might not be a bad idea to start a new thread with a title more reflective of what you are asking, also.