I would like to get the boards opinion. I would like to take Organic Chemistry I, Physics I and Calculus I this fall, however, my advisor is advising against it, thinking it too difficult a workload.
While I have a lot of respect for my advisor, I’m not getting any younger and would like to get my degree over with as soon as possible. If I take Organic I and Physics I this semester, then I can take Organic II and Physics II in the spring. This would allow me to take the MCAT in the summer. If I don’t do it like this, then I’ll end up having to wait until next fall to take either Physics II or Organic II. This throws everything off. Then of course there is the fact that I wouldn’t be a full time student. It is my understanding that this might hurt me with med schools. There are really no “soft” classes I can take to keep my hours up. All I have left are science courses.
Did anyone else take these three classes at one time?
I did take this exact course load a few years ago and I think depending on where your strengths lie, you could handle it. For me, because maths is not my forte, I really struggled with Calc. But I did fine in Orgo and Phys(for life sciences/not calc based.) In hind site I don’t think it would have made much difference for me to have changed things up. I don’t think me and calculus were meant to be friends, no matter how much time we had to spend together.
If you’re good at math, I bet you will handle it just fine, if not, you may, like I did, get handed a grade that is not an A 
The most common answer on OPM is still appropriate: IT DEPENDS.
How strong a student are you? No matter how smart you are, you WILL have to put in a lot of time for Orgo. The others you may be able to slack on, depending on how “quick” you are and how “competitive” your school is–only u can answer that.
I didn’t take those three specifically, but I’m pretty sure I took orgo I, calc III, physics II, some 200 level bio course, and C++ programming all with labs, (or something similarly crazy). I’m sure I had no life, but I survived, and it was the semester I had the highest GPA. 
So it is possible…
Playing devil’s advocate, the question I always ask people is your goal to get into medical school or to get into medical school quickly? Many people I speak to in OPM have a similar mindset to yours (ie not getting any younger) and suffer from “premature application.” The risk in taking your suggested course load is increase potential for poorer grades. And if you have 3 courses with significant workloads, stretching your resources across all three could produce mediocre results across all three.
Having said all that, taking a rational project approach is now having identified the risk, how can you mitigate the risk (other than not taking the courses). One suggestion is to start working on the material now. You could simply get the cliff notes or schawm guides. Or your could contact the professor, get a syllabus, get the textbooks (often schools have those textbook listings online via the bookstore franchise, and start digging in early. I would also keep an eye on the last bail out point: critical path or decision point is the end of the add/drop date period. So you could put this decison off until that juncture.
In the end, you’ll have to decide on your own abilities. Personally, I have seen too many burn taking too much too quickly, especially 3 heavy courses like your are suggesting. It isn’t the fall that I would be so concerned about as much as taking all three part II’s in teh spring. Physics II and Orgo II together would have killed me. I won’t even go near Calc II
I’m in a very similar boat and while waiting to hear from my advisor, figure I’ll throw my situation in the hopper as well.
I have organic I and physics I scheduled for this fall. I didn’t think much about it until my boss came back to work after recovering from a health issue. He was out most of the spring semester so I was able to have a fairly stable and predictable work load and schedule. Not so between now and next summer. To put it mildly, he’s quite manic and I can’t count on having much free time or free lunch hours (when I try and keep up with school work). I’m not crazy about risking a B or taking another W (I have one already and one to keep it that way).
To make the school and work schedules peacefully co-exist, I will have to be at work at 6:30 a.m. and then leave for school at 3:30 p.m. and be in class until 8 p.m. on most nights. This doesn’t leave much study time during the week to keep up with the coursework.
Spring '09 is to be organic II and an MCAT prep course for the April '09 MCAT with a planned admit to med school in '10.
However, having crashed and burned on one course (online calc I) because I overbooked myself, I’m reconsidering my fall schedule and just taking organic I by itself and concentrating my efforts there.
If I don’t have a physics foundation before the MCAT in April, is it still possible to do well with a prep course? Or, should I put the schedule aside and hold off on the MCAT until '10?
hak
Having a full time job (with a manic and unpredictable boss) AND organic II (which I considered the most difficult prereq) AND physics II (full of too many formulas to keep straight) AND an MCAT prep course (which worth a semester of work by itself) AND having those luxuries in life like eating, sleeping, etc AND you plan to study when?
Which would look worse to adcom? not having a full term or having mediocre grades? Not too mention the potential impact to the MCAT, which schools consider about equal in weight to a GPA. My opinion would be to delay it, takes physics II next year, spend most of next year getting your MCATs prep, blow that test away and be a successful candiate
Playing devil’s advocate, the question I always ask people is your goal to get into medical school or to get into medical school quickly? Many people I speak to in OPM have a similar mindset to yours (ie not getting any younger) and suffer from “premature application.” The risk in taking your suggested course load is increase potential for poorer grades. And if you have 3 courses with significant workloads, stretching your resources across all three could produce mediocre results across all three.
My apologies for not replying sooner, but it’s taken time for me to swallow my pride and admit to the board what I’m about to say. The matter has been settled for me. I took 8 hours over the summer (Chem II, Chem II lab and Trig) and completely blew it. I mean bad. I got a C in Chem II, a B in the Chem II lab, and a D in Trig. The lowest grade I’ve ever had was a B and I haven’t had too many of those. I’m pretty devastated.
I’m angry with myself for biting off more than I could chew. I was overconfident and had more faith in my abilities than was warranted. It’s the final exams that caused me to blow it. I had a low B in Trig going into the final and a mid-B in Chem II. We learned new info up to the second to the last day of class and had our final chapter tests the day before the finals. There just wasn’t enough time to study for it all, not when I have two kids to take care of (my wife works nights so I take care of dinner, take kids to martial arts, gymnastics, art class, etc., etc.) and a part tme job at the hospital. I look back on it now and ask myself over and over, “What was I thinking?!”
I know there’s no use crying over spilt milk. I’ll just have to deal with it and move on. I would be lying if I didn’t say it has shaken my confidence a little though. Anyway, my university won’t allow me to retake Chem II, so I am going to advance to Org I, retake Trig, and take Human Anatomy instead of Physics.
Personally, I have seen too many burn taking too much too quickly, especially 3 heavy courses like your are suggesting. It isn’t the fall that I would be so concerned about as much as taking all three part II’s in teh spring. Physics II and Orgo II together would have killed me. I won’t even go near Calc II
Well luckily Calc I is as far as I have to go. As for the other classes, I’m kind’ve between a rock and a hard place. All I have left to take are hard science classes. I’ve been told that for me to be competitive, I have to take a miniumum of 12 hours, and they would like to see more.
Here’s my schedule for the rest of my degree program. If you or anyone else on the board has any advice on a better order to take these classes in, I would be happy to listen.
Fall Semester 2008
CHM 310 Organic Chemistry I 5 SH
BMS 307 Human Anatomy 4 SH
MTH 181 Trigonometry 3 SH
Total: 12 Hours
Spring Semester 2009
CHM 311 Organic Chemistry II 5 SH
MTH 287 Computational Calculus w/Analytic Geometry I 3 SH
BMS 321 Biomolecular Interactions 4 SH
Total: 12 Hours
Summer Semester 2009
BMS 308 Human Physiology 4 SH
Total: 4 Hours
Fall Semester 2009
BMS 521 Molecular Cell Biology 4 SH
PHY 123 Introduction to Physics I 4 SH
BIO 310 Microbiology 5 SH
Total: 13 Hours
Spring Semester 2010
PHY 124 Introduction to Physics II 4 SH
BMS 525 Molecular Biology 4 SH
CHM 350 Biochemistry I 3 SH
CHM 351 Biochemistry I Lab 2 SH
Total: 13 Hours
Summer Semester 2010
Study for and take MCAT
Fall Semester 2010
BMS 494 Senior Seminar in Cell and Molecular Biology 1 SH
BMS 570 Principles of Pharmacology 3 SH
BMS 569 Neurobiology 3 SH
BMS 582 Embryology 4 SH
Total: 11 Hours
Spring Semester 2011
BMS 585 Histology 4 SH
BMS 561 Medical and Pathologic Physiology 4 SH
BMS 562 Medical and Pathologic Physiology Laboratory 1 SH
BMS 565 Human Cardiopulmonary Physiology 3 SH
Total: 12 hours
“I’m kind’ve between a rock and a hard place. All I have left to take are hard science classes. I’ve been told that for me to be competitive, I have to take a miniumum of 12 hours, and they would like to see more”
Jimbo,
are you working full time and going to school? The full term rule of thumb, while very applicable to traditional students, is simply not goona work for most non-trads. Some things are just gonna be stretched out. Again, never risk bad grades over taking too much.
Having said that, my view is that Bio courses, while hard, usually at least make sense to most people. That is, the concepts seem clear enough, though there may be alot. Chemistry, Calc, Physics, have such foreign concepts in some topics, that they just never makes sense and therefore even more difficult. You had a bad term but you have alot more to go forward, more than enough to make up for it.
BTW, my rules come from my own experience. In my original college degree I graduated Magna Cum Barely so I know exactly the feeling you are going thru. So always remember my rule 1: take a breath.
Take a breath now and move on.
are you working full time and going to school? The full term rule of thumb, while very applicable to traditional students, is simply not goona work for most non-trads. Some things are just gonna be stretched out. Again, never risk bad grades over taking too much.
No, I work part time, about 16-20 hours a week, mostly on the weekends. I really want to quit and focus on my studies, but my prior career wasn’t in the health care field so I need the clinical experience for my application.
Take a breath now and move on.
Yep, that’s about all I can do. Depending on how things go this semester, I may drop the biomolecular interactions class next semester and focus on Org II and Calc.
Thanks for the support.
Jim, you don’t need THAT MUCH clinical experience for your application. You could volunteer a few hours a month from here out and be fine. I had ZERO clinical experience other than hospice volunteering and a year of Saturday mornings volunteering at a hospital when I was admitted to med school. Just something to keep in mind as you work out your schedule.
Thanks for the feedback. My advisor called back and after chatting through it (he knows about my boss), we decided that it would be best to delay the application by a year. He said it will actually give me an opportunity to get some other biology courses under my belt like molecular genetics and cell physiology to beef up my MCAT prep.
I’m breathing a sigh of relief in that I no longer feel like I’m on the fast track to burning out and being spread too thin…and excelling at nothing.
The one great thing about this career change is that the workload is helping me get a better understanding of my limits. I’m not the hot-shit multitasker I thought I was!
Jim, you don’t need THAT MUCH clinical experience for your application. You could volunteer a few hours a month from here out and be fine. I had ZERO clinical experience other than hospice volunteering and a year of Saturday mornings volunteering at a hospital when I was admitted to med school. Just something to keep in mind as you work out your schedule.
Really? LOL! If that’s the case, I need to rethink some things. I was under the impression that the med schools liked to see those with no healthcare background work in the field in some way, shape or form as well as volunteer in the same field. I’ve been beating my head trying to figure out how to fit in my healthcare volunteer time in addition to everything else. Now it looks like I can knock out two birds with one stone.
I’m going to have to start asking more questions of the board it would appear. I am making things more difficult than they need to be.
You and gonnif have brightened my day. Thank you very much.
Jim, that course schedule would be OK for someone who is NOT working. It is too much if you are working 20 hours a week IMHO.
Hakado, your gut is telling you to take one course and slow down. I agree.
Mary
The post-bacc process is not simply to show the medical schools the you can make the grades but also to show yourself that you want medical school. You find out the process and habits that work for you and your family and your life.
It seems that some of the “kids” (ie traditional students) are now taking the "slow path. Some students in the summer class that I am taking are telling me that a trend for premeds at SUNY Stony Brook is to take only 12 credits per term, take the courses in the summer as well, in order to have the best grades. Of course SUNY Stony Brook is a most competitive place and their med school is famously bias in taking their own students (Another very incestuous school like Brown University)
Can I say again how much I love this board? It’s so helpful to hear other people’s experiences, including the setbacks which can be hard to share. I’m a little worried about my Orgo/Physics/Bio year ahead, hoping that my brain will work in the ways that I need it to. I was told by a doctor this week that drinking helps the mysterious parts of Organic Chemistry come together. I’m putting that in my toolbox
Jim, that course schedule would be OK for someone who is NOT working. It is too much if you are working 20 hours a week IMHO.
Mary, thank you for your input. I went ahead and quit my job and am focusing full time on my studies. I cannot afford another disastrous semester like this last summer semester.