So I got around the 50-60th percentile on my ACT back when I couldn’t have cared less about academics, much less medical school.
I am currently in the process of applying to post-baccs and one of these programs suggests that I take the ACT again. The director of the program told me that the ACT is usually within two points of a student’s eventual MCAT score and that the ACT is an “extremely accurate” indicator of one’s performance on the MCAT.
Does anyone know if there is much truth to that last statement? I have always been a mediocre standardized test-taker, but something tells me that if I have a mastery of the subject matter on the MCAT, then it will be different than most of my stadardized testing experiences (because I had a mastery of nothing!).
Any insight anyone could offer would be very helpful to me. Good luck to everyone on the April MCAT!
I suppose that your scores on the ACT or SAT may be somewhat correlated to the MCAT in that they’re all standardized test, but “extremely accurate”? Sounds like an exaggeration to me, sure some kids do great all around, while others aced high school and bombed college or vice versa. Retaking a college entrance exam after you’ve already graduated from college seems kind of silly to me. Are there other (more recent) standardized test scores you could submit, i.e. GRE, LSAT, GMAT? I would think that if they’re looking to see how you do on standardized tests they could look at those. I’d think they would correlate as much as the SAT or ACT (which perhaps isn’t saying much).
That sounds really wierd! Even if ACT scores do correlate to MCAT scores–YOUR score would be skewed by the fact that you’re older and have been to college. I don’t see how it would give them what they’re looking for. The GRE, maybe?
Do the ACT people even let college students/grads take the test?
Sorry I don’t have any real advice, but good luck!
"The director of the program told me that the ACT is usually within two points of a student’s eventual MCAT score and that the ACT is an “extremely accurate” indicator of one’s performance on the MCAT."
Ok, forgive me for posting twice on this, but that’s even wierder. Not that many high school student even TAKE the ACT. It’s more common in the midwest than anywhere else. Students from the midwest who want to attend schools elsewhere almost invariably take the SAT, so that narrows the pool even more. AND, I’d guess that among traditional premeds as a group, the percentage who take the ACT might even be smaller than the percentage of the general college population who take the ACT.
Plus, what is the source for this statistic? How many people who eventually take the MCAT dig up their old ACT scores and then report them both to some authority figure who’s keeping track? (The MCAT form doesn’t ask). Plus, ACT scores are only valid for maybe 5 years. I don’t know if they keep old scores available, but I’m pretty sure that MY paper-based score from the early 90’s is NOT in their files anymore. And what kind of post-bacc program, where the applicants tend to BE more than five years out of high school, would have been able to adequately collect and analyze that kind of data? Maybe the correlation would hold for traditional students, but I doubt there’s enough information to say the same about non-trads.
Geez–the Nixon white house tapes have been available for years and no one pays ANY attention to them. I’m sure there’s NEVER been an actual, scientific study on the topic of ACT-MCAT score correlation. If I’m wrong I’ll eat my words, but why would anyone bother?
Ok, I’m done.
I am not 100% sure on this but this sounds like bogus. I do not think that you can even compare the two exams for although they are standardized they are completely different beasts. I have heard from different folks that their ACT scores did not correlate at all with their MCAT now I have no clue if there is some study out there, but I would think twice about this post-bacc just based on them wanting to retake your ACT when you can do your stuff “a la carte”…
I’m not sure why this particular program places so much emphasis on the ACT. They seem to have some corroborating evidence that the test is an awesome indicator of standardized test-taking ability, though they have made no specific mention of this evidence. I asked them if they wanted my LSAT score and they were unsatisfied with this arrangement.
I am in complete agreement with you on my “ala carte” option. They just seem to be very protective about their committee letter because they are a new program, trying to build stronger linkages with the schools they have relationships with. So I understand to some extent -but retake the ACT? WTF?
Can anyone shed any light onto whether or not the MCAT can be beat by students who have always tested poorly on standardized exams that don’t require a subject matter mastery (e.g., the LSAT, most of the ACT/SAT, IMO)? Will acing your prereqs and knowing your sciences cold prepare you for this test, or is it more of a test of how one thinks when answering questions related to a learned subject matter?
Thanks for all the responses!
Quote:
Can anyone shed any light onto whether or not the MCAT can be beat by students who have always tested poorly on standardized exams that don’t require a subject matter mastery (e.g., the LSAT, most of the ACT/SAT, IMO)? Will acing your prereqs and knowing your sciences cold prepare you for this test, or is it more of a test of how one thinks when answering questions related to a learned subject matter?
Now, I haven’t taken every standardized test out there but IMHO the MCAT is somewhat unique in that it is BOTH of these things - it is testing you on knowledge that you’ve gained in specific coursework, and it is also testing you on your ability to process new information and think through to answers. You must call on your background information in order to do this processing but there will be precious few questions where just that knowledge will be enough. Most of the time it’s a matter of synthesizing and integrating.
If you haven’t looked at some sample MCAT passages, I suggest you check them out to see what I mean. Now, initially your response will be a lot like your response to the ACT issue - “WTF??” I remember looking at an MCAT review book and the first passage in the physics section was about jet engines. I thought, well, he11, I am never going to be able to do this stuff.
Well, that’s the charm (cough) of the MCAT. When you take it you will know enough about physics to read a passage about jet engines and recognize some of the concepts even though the overall passage initially looks like rocket science. And then the questions you’ll have to answer will look to you to lean on your basic physics knowledge to understand concepts from the passage.
If I were to try and boil down the MCAT in one sentence… hmmm, that’s hard, but I’d say it is trying to actually teach you stuff with the passages and assuming that you already know a lot so that you are ready to learn these weird, esoteric things.
I’ve probably made it clear as mud, sorry.
"They just seem to be very protective about their committee letter because they are a new program, trying to build stronger linkages with the schools they have relationships with. So I understand to some extent -but retake the ACT?"
Well, it still sounds really shaky. If they want to build good relationships with med schools, shouldn’t they be focusing on the quality and rigor of their science curriculum? I’d be skeptical of a program that bases its selectivity on ACT scores. Plus, while it’s common to hear students talking about their “standardized test-taking skills”, I’d be critical of anyone on the admissions side of academia using terms like that. Whether or not that IS the only thing that standardized tests really gauge (which they wouldn’t 'fess up to anyway), the people who USE them ought to have more faith in the test than that.
Don’t let their comment hurt your confidence. The MCAT is something you can definitely prepare for.
-andrea
So are they REQUIRING the ACT for you to be admitted to their program? If they just recommend it, I would ask (politely, and with a semblance of sincere curiosity) for more information about the correlation between ACT and MCAT scores–was there a study? Can they send you a citation, just because it would be neat to see the information?
In other words, ask them to back up their recommendation or requirement, but do it without offending them, in case you decide you want to go there.
This is likely an unethical thing that I’m about to do, but I’m going to post the exact email from the post-bacc program to give all of you a better idea of what’s going on. I thank all of you for your insightful replies. Feel free to give me some advice on just how to answer this type of email. Thanks!
“As long as you are sure of your score, I don’t need an official report of your score. The reason I ask about your ACT score, and the reason it’s important in the selection process for our program, is that it is an excellent indicator of how well you will score on the MCAT. Most students will have a MCAT score which will be within 2 points of their ACT composite score, and the average MCAT score of students accepted to medical school is a 29. Your ability to score well on standardized tests is necessary since you must pass standardized exams to progress from one level of medical education to another. It has been my experience that students with ACT composite scores less than 25 rarely score well enough on the MCAT to be accepted to medical school, even though they may have performed exceptionally well in their course work.
I would suggest that you take the ACT again. It is entirely possible that you will score significantly better than when you were in high school. Students who don’t have good standardized test taking ability can gain that ability to a certain degree by taking as many practice MCATS as possible, you need to know going in if that is something to be concerned with.”
This person sounds like s/he is channeling the spirit of my daughter’s high school principal, with whom I am currently dueling over attendance requirements and the alleged necessity to get a doctor’s note if she misses any school. (it’s a long story but it reached absurd heights when he last week assured me that state law required him to do this for her excess absence in a class she is NOT getting credit for. We’re calling him “Ed Rooney” around here.)
This is just plain stupid. In fact, it’s one of those things that is so stupid, it’s hard to know how to argue with it. I mean, it sounds like you could just make something up, which is not what I would normally advocate. But it is illogical and downright offensively unscientific to tell someone who has completed college that their performance on a test written for high schoolers could somehow prognosticate their performance on a very different kind of test.
It sounds like they have been sitting around telling themselves this for many years, until now they believe it. Kinda like WMD.
LOL! Mary you are so damn hilarious! I hope that principal shapes up. You’re definetly not someone I would want to go toe to toe with!
I don’t know what to tell this guy. He wants me to meet him for an informal interview next week and I’m thinking of cancelling and just taking the prereqs at the local state college. The courses will be cheaper and closer to home, anyway.
The funny thing is that this program is only a few years old. He looked at my transcripts and said everything looked great but this last email of his leads me to believe that they just can’t get passed a damn low-20s ACT. I’m definetly reconsidering the post-bacc route; especially because this particular program is the only one I can geographically afford to attend.
This seems like no way to recruit students. Other thoughts?
I can’t believe I’m posting for a fourth time on this! 
I hope you’ll forgive me for being so overly interested (I really don’t have a speck of advice to offer, alas…) but my latest comment is this–does the person who sent you that email know that the ACT is scored on a scale that goes up to 36, whereas the MCAT goes all the way up to 45? Does that mean that no one has ever scored higher than a 38 on the MCAT?
Quick! Find out! Then send the info on to the MCAT folks. I bet they’d be glad to know.
andrea
I know. I really don’t know where this guy is coming from but I’ve pretty much decided I’m done with their program. It’s pretty interesting to think about the reasons why they place so much emphasis on the ACT. They must be concerned that their coursework is not strong enough to prepare their students. Not to mention that they actually have an MCAT review at the end of their program. It shows a real lack of confidence in their program to be advocating such a theory with prospective students.
I’ll just add that I was quizzed on my SAT scores at at least one med school interview. Not only do I not know my score from a zillion years ago before I even knew I “could” go to college - I don’t even know if I took it - or the ACT - or anything. All I remember is taking a standardized test at my private HS and then the Air Force hounding me for months trying to get me to join. I was totally floored that anyone would give a rip at this point in the game, it seems useless trivia.
So, whatever, people have their issues with standardized tests. I was accepted to the school who wanted to know my score even after I explained I didn’t know. So I was none the worse for wear not producing the data.
My contribution, then, is that this might not be the first time somebody asks for this obscurity.
Hi there,
I guess that admissions guy is telling you that they won’t accept you unless you re-take a test that is meaningless. Since the ACT is for high school students, the fact that you have been to college will negate any results. You have two options: Take the test or don’t take the test.
Do you really want to trust your pre-medical preparation to a program that has these kinds of ideas? Anyway, if this post bacc is a good program, they will be able to point to your low ACT score and your MCAT score (which will be off the scale) and say that they do good work because look what they did for you!
Natalie 
So what happens if you didn’t take the ACT?? I never did. I took the SAT and didn’t have a stellar score either, and I was successful in college. I swear I got a 1010 on the SAT, which was 10 points above average back then, but according to the College Board, my official scores were a 900 and 990, respectively. One of the post-bacs that rejected me specifically pointed out my low SAT score as a reason to reject me. (It was not the only reason but the fact that they pointed out gave me pause. Insert gagging sounds here).
Was this post-bac program somehow linked with the College Board (or whoever administers the ACT)? Were they getting financial compensation from the College Board for every non-traditional student who registered to take the ACT? It seems a little ridiculous for a non-traditional student who has already graduated from college (or is currently enrolled) and who has probably had a successful career to pay $$ and take the time to repeat a test geared towards 16-18-year-olds. I mean come on, between our regular science classes and the upcoming MCAT, Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, Clinical Skills Assesment Test, Board certification tests, we’ll be drowning in tests by the time we’re full-fledged doctors! Why take one that you don’t need to? That’s my 2 cents.
Love,
Stacy
>The director of the program told me that the ACT is usually
>within two points of a student’s eventual MCAT score and that
>the ACT is an “extremely accurate” indicator of one’s
>performance on the MCAT.
If this is what they are telling you before you’ve signed away your soul, you’re going to need a shovel - or maybe a bulldozer - to dig yourself out from under the BS actual students have to deal with.
Take your $ and go find another school that’s more customer service oriented.