I have a question…hopefully many of you will have come across a similar circumstance.
Here’s a little background about myself
Age 34
B.A. in biology 1993 3.345
all of my pre-reqs were taken over 10 years ago
worked as a phleb from 89-93
worked as a histotech from 93-98…also performed autopsy eviscerations on 200+ cases
never married, no kids
I support my mother, she is 62 and is disabled.
-looking at UPenn’s post-bacc program…the assistant dean told me that I SHOULD apply and that she thought I’d have a good chance of getting into med school…provided I do well from here on out.
I was speaking to an MD friend of mine…about the same age as me. He’s an interventional radiologist. Basically he was telling me a lot of things that would stack the system against me…mainly regarding my age. Now I know he is biased being an MD, but he told me that the MD schools are less forgiving of non-trad’s. He also told me that I would have better chances of being accepted to a DO school which in his opinion would limit me with regard to residency programs and specialization. He also told me that due to my age I would be competing with docs upon graduation that are much younger than myself, for prime positions and such…basically telling me that the politics of age would play a role in limiting my upward mobility within the medical community.
I am concerned when considering all of the gloomy prognostications by my friend, about my ability to live a happy life, and pay all of my bills when I would presumably finish my residency at age 47. It would seem to me I would have about 20 good years to practice, pay off loans (both medical and mortgage), plus futue family/child expenses…etc.
It makes me wonder if going to medical school at this stage in my life is worth it. A lot can happen to me between now and 47, but I just want to be sure that I am not setting myself up long term debtwise. Plus the way my friend describes it I would be confined to the lower rungs of responsibility and be limited by my age…I am talking about the politics of medical centers and positions of power.
An alternate path would be the grad degree, which would allow me to do research and teach which I am also interested in. It’s the medical “stuff” that really gets me going though…philosophically it feels like the right thing to. Plus I think the professional degree would open me up to more opportunity.
How does everyone rationalize the cost vs. age vs time to live after med school?
Sorry for the book, but this is something weighing very heavily on my mind right now as I feel like my “window” is closing.
Well I am a fairly new user to this forum, but I have it to be very helpful and inspiring. If you want to be an MD then do what it takes to see your dream come true. Your age is not that limiting, there are people on this board who are older and are in med school or some like OLdManDave and NJBMD wh are now in residency.
Myself I am 39 right now and I still have to complete my bachelors degree. I have the total support of my hubby and through reading the posts on this board I know I am NOT too old to finally reach my dream.
You should go through the old posts and read as much of it as you can. Its all interesting. I am sure you will get a lot of advice from the members here
Good Luck
Cathy
| QUOTE (trkk @ Aug 17 2003, 10:39 PM) |
| How does everyone rationalize the cost vs. age vs time to live after med school? |
This is a question I continue to struggle with.
I have a job I enjoy that affords me many educational opportunities, lots of promotion potential and is very secure. I like doing research, but I continue to think what if...
The age and time commitment are not factors I've thought much about when considering medical school. No matter what, I'll be investing my time into whatever I choose to do. No matter what, I'll get old (assuming I don't die first).
Recently, I was offered the opportunity to pursue my Ph.D. while earning my current salary. This opportunity threw me for a loop and has made my decision making far more difficult. After spending weeks crunching the numbers of lost earnings, retirement benefits, accrual of significant debt and future earnings, neither option comes out the clear financial winner. So, I've had to return many times to the why. Why would I want an MD? Why would I want a Ph.D.? I've made many pro/con lists and I'm still not sure what to do.
As to your particular situation, only you can know if you're willing to invest the time, money and effort into pursuing either a graduate degree or an MD. Based on your GPA from your BA, I'd suggest you opt for the graduate degree now instead of the post-bac program. Your undergraduate GPA would allow you entrance into many Master's or Ph.D. programs. In my opinion, since the graduate degree is one of your options, you would be well served to pursue the grad degree. I think this would help you make a more informed decision about what you want to do with the rest of your working life.
I'd also suggest you call up a few medical schools you think you'd be interested in attending to ask whether you should pursue a grad degree, a post-bac program or just take a few classes. You could also do this for graduate programs you'd be interested in.
| QUOTE |
| Basically he was telling me a lot of things that would stack the system against me...mainly regarding my age. |
I disagree that your age would be a factor used to discriminate against you. There are many physicians every day who accept new jobs - competing against other applicants. I'd dare say few of them find their age to be a disadvantage. I'll also disagree that a DO would limit your options as a physician.
As to the cost v age v time thing - go with what you want. If being a physician will make you happy and is worth the investment - go for it. If you opt for grad school - go for it. If you choose to stay where you are doing what you are - do it to the best of your ability. You will have (or create) opportunities no matter what you choose to do.
As I stated above, the decision for me has come down to what do I really want to do with my work life? There is no clear road to financial success. There is no clear road to happiness and contentment. Pick a path, follow it and know that if you wake up tomorrow you can always decide to go in a new direction
-- Rachel
stuck at the crossroads, but still giving others directions
duck,
wish i had advice. only have the same feelings.
though i have a masters in science i am missing all my prereq with labs. i can not tell you the hours in a day that i spend thinking 'what am i thinking?'.
i find this board inspiring and motiviational (thanks everyone) and i find my own inner desire sometimes overwhelming.
i wish there was a magic bullet where someone would say …yes this is a good idea etc.
i would say that 6 years ago a doc friend of mine said 'don't do it. you will lose 4 years of your life and you have a great job and practice medicine as a NP' well now i wish i didn't listen. i would be ahead of the game and nothing in my heart has changed.
i understand completely how you feel. good luck. take it a step at a time. that's my plan for the next year and then when i have more prereqs done i can evaluate my life and family all again. besides…so much can change in time. maybe by then i'll have won powerball and i can sponsor an OPM.!!
Thanks for the advice…The thing that makes it a tougher decision is that I am not currently working in the field. I switched to IT about 5 years ago. I am now employed as a network engineer and make a decent salary, better than I had been making as a histotech by far. Obviously any change is going to cause big changes…even before med school. Anyway…my investigation goes on!
Thanks
Hopefully you will get more replies from our members already in med school/residency.
Hey, I'm 33, married and have 3 kids. I've also gotten 5 interviews so far this year! (1 DO, 4 MD) I strongly disagree with your friend's assesment that your age is a serious barrier. Yes, you have to prove you can hack it, get the scores, show the interest, prove yourself. But so does every other applicant.
DO school will only limit your choices if you let it. Most DO students wind up in allopathic residencies. ( far more allo residencies avail.) Look at the match lists for recent years at some DO schools, you might be surprised.
What kind of medicine are you interested in? Are you looking at an academic career? MD/PhD? Or primary care? There are some good books out there that will give you lots of info on the diff. types of residencies, their competitiveness, etc. Iserson's Getting Into a Residency comes to mind.
Good luck!
Hello Trkk,
As far as the “cost vs. age vs time to live” issue–well, I think it’s an important consideration, but it does not have to be the primary focus when people are deciding whether or not to go to medical school. I mean, you face that dilemma in every career path. Personally, I’m 30, and if things go well I’ll start med school when I’m 32. I’m sure things will work out ok financially in the end, as long as I continue to focus on doing well in school and other activities. I’m not too concerned about where I stand in any political hierarchy, anyway. Plus, my income prospects were pretty dismal before I went back to school (I was in magazine journalism), so I didn’t have to make any truly huge financial sacrifices. On the other hand, for people who are already established in a well-paying job, I think the decision about going back to school is harder.
Since you’re supporting your mom, you have to keep that in mind. Of course I don’t know enough about your situation to make any specific suggestions, but one thing you could do is shop around for the most economical post-bacc opportunities in your area. U-Penn sounds like it’s one option, but there might be others. You don’t have to go through a formal program either. Other people here on OPM are going to school and supporting their families, and I bet you can get lots of great ideas from them!
As far as the views of your radiologist friend, well, he’s entitled to his opinion, and no doubt there are plenty of doctors who would agree with him about the need to start young in medicine. But that’s not the only view. Anyway, how does he know that MD schools are “less forgiving” of non-trads? I mean, has he been on an admissions committee, and if so, how many? Or is he making casual observations? Maybe he just tends to be more observant of people whose career path has resembled his own… Either way, if I were you, I’d keep his advice in mind, but also get some other perspectives. Maybe you could make an appointment with an admissions advisor at a medical school and see what they think.
Good luck!
To the OP, your concerns are valid. What is NOT valid is your friend’s assessment of your opportunities. He is spouting the not-well-thought-out “party line” which actually doesn’t turn out to be true. But those beliefs (MD schools aren’t receptive to non-trads, DOs will be limited in where they can practice, etc. etc. blah blah blah) are widely held and slow to die a deserving death, even while every day someone achieves something that flies in the face of those beliefs.
So all I can say is, sort these issues out for yourself WITHOUT the noise of that uninformed advice. They are still important issues about what YOU want to do with your life and your time.
| QUOTE |
| DO school will only limit your choices if you let it. Most DO students wind up in allopathic residencies. ( far more allo residencies avail.) Look at the match lists for recent years at some DO schools, you might be surprised. What kind of medicine are you interested in? Are you looking at an academic career? MD/PhD? Or primary care? There are some good books out there that will give you lots of info on the diff. types of residencies, their competitiveness, etc. Iserson's Getting Into a Residency comes to mind. |
I agree that most people limit themselves. Thats why I wanted to try and get the straight line from people on here. As far as what kind of career I am interested in.....? Well...I would need to get some more info on the different paths I could take in practice. I am interested in research, and actually would love to teach. If I was able to practice and teach that would be fine by me. I also want to make sure that I am able to get into a program with a good rep.
| QUOTE |
| So all I can say is, sort these issues out for yourself WITHOUT the noise of that uninformed advice. They are still important issues about what YOU want to do with your life and your time. |
Well between here and some reading I am doing hopefully I will be able to arrive at a good decision. It seems to me that the professional degree brings with it more opportunity so I would like to go that route. Those concerns do creep in so I have some soul searching to do.
Thanks for the advice. At this stage I sure can use the encouragement. It's great to have a place like this to draw from.
Hi there,
I left a very good career in academics for medicine. I was on track to make tenured professor about the same time that I will be a chief resident in General Surgery. I will state over and over, I did not go into medicine for money and anyone who attends medical school with the idea that they are going to make lots of money will be very disappointed. Yes, there are orthopedic surgeons and some cardiothoracic surgeons who make seven figure salaries but they are not the norm of medical practictioners.
Will I be able to retire at age 65 and live on a golf course? No, I will be working past 70 if I stay on my current timeline. Many of my younger colleages speak about being able to retire at age 45 and have a life. My life is surgery and I love every minute of what I do. I will continue to operate as long as I can safely and competently take care of my patients. Interestingly, I did a laparoscopic appendectomy yesterday and my eye-hand coordination is actually improving as I hone my skills with the instruments. It turns out to be a practice-thing and not an age thing! 
Is medicine a financially secure path? Not really, if your expectations are to join the millionairs club and you are not alreay there. By the time I finished medical school, I was grateful to be working for a salary instead of working for grades but I am living far below the standard that I enjoyed as a college professor. Do I regret taking this path? Not ever! Medical school and General Surgery was the right path for me and my life goals. I have a career that I love and daily challenges that are personally satisfying. I don’t think I would have had the same challenges if I had stayed in academia but who knows? I love the instant gratification of getting through a complicated case with the job well done. When I put on that surgical gown and gloves, there is no room for a bad day. I take each challenge as it comes.
I am a 51-year old junior resident in General Surgery. I go far beyond unusual. This has been an life pattern for me. It is not the pattern for every 51 year-old. I am going to put hemodialysis fistulas in two 40 year old patients over the next week and a couple of 51-year olds. I am healthy and extremely energetic. I have sacrificed financial security for “living on the edge” and I am not looking back. I will strongly emphasize that medicine is not for everyone traditional or non-traditional but I find few barriers and lots of open doors.
Natalie
| QUOTE |
| As far as what kind of career I am interested in.....? Well...I would need to get some more info on the different paths I could take in practice. I am interested in research, and actually would love to teach. If I was able to practice and teach that would be fine by me. I also want to make sure that I am able to get into a program with a good rep. |
What I've observed is that you can make your own opportunities in medicine. You can seek out people with whom to do research. You can sign up to be a student mentor for MS-I &II groups and get some early teaching experience that will not only help you be a better teacher in residency but also be a resume-enhancer if you want to get your foot in the door for academic medicine. You can do away rotations during your fourth year of medical school, picking places where you'd like to do your residency, where they're pursuing research you're interested in, etc.
Networking, getting to know people, seeking out opportunities are all key, and these steps can be taken from any accredited program in the United States.
"A program with a good rep" is whatever program you're doing well in, so that YOU can find the opportunities that work for you, and make a good impression on the people you'd like to work with. Don't buy into the USNews rankings -- you will get a good basic medical education at any accredited medical school in the US and the rest will be up to you to make the opportunities that work for you.
And some of this is hard to know ahead of time. You know the sort of situation where you really don't know what questions to ask until you're in the middle of things? That's medical school. Lots of people start out "knowing" they want to pursue a particular specialty only to find, once they've done their rotations, that they'd actually rather do something else. I know it's sort of unnerving to hear, but your path won't be entirely clear until AFTER you're immersed in the environment and can gauge your reactions to what you're experiencing.
But the short answer (near the end of a long post) is that you can definitely teach and do research and practice.
My internal medicine mentor for my first clinical experiences in years I&II did some research in his office, presented it at local conferences, and he was teaching me and some other medical students. My outpatient peds rotation was with a community physician who did research in his office, taught me and other students, and participated in teaching rounds at the local hospital. Both of them were 'just regular docs' but they were doing a lot of neat, interesting stuff.
hope that helps.
| QUOTE |
| Is medicine a financially secure path? Not really, if your expectations are to join the millionairs club and you are not alreay there. |
I'm not worried about being rich...I just would like to make sure I can pay my bills. I definitely do not live extravagantly now...and have a house that is worth less than $100k. I'd just like to be in the same ballpark once my loans are paid, maybe take a vacation once a year and not be in hock during my retirement which is presumably 20-25 years after I graduate. Anything more would be a bonus...including a career that is rewarding and fulfilling. I think medicine is that career.
| QUOTE |
| I know it's sort of unnerving to hear, but your path won't be entirely clear until AFTER you're immersed in the environment and can gauge your reactions to what you're experiencing. But the short answer (near the end of a long post) is that you can definitely teach and do research and practice. |
I had heard that you don't really have a good idea of any specializtion until you are in a program and see for yourself firsthand...so that I am not worried about. I really have interest in teaching but didn't want to limit myself to just that...hence the idea of getting the professional degree. I could teach with a PhD or MS, but the MD or DO lends so much more. Plus I think I would make a good doctor.
Thanks again for the advice...hopefully as I learn more and begin down the road of post-bacc my posts will have more confidence.
I am now 37 will be 38 when I start, so far I have already had one interview at Mayo, and four more lined up in September! Pritzker, U of KY, Vandy, Jefferson. Obviously these folks now my age and are still willing to interview me, do not let your AGE be a factor!
If you want to read about a lot of self-doubt, second guessing, etc…feel free to read my post on the intro section “I’M BAAACK”!!! I went through all of that for the past 6-7 months and all roads lead me back to what I love and know that I will do…become a physician specializing in critical care medicine. My path may be quite unorthodox but, it will get the job done and, more importantly, it’s the path for me!!! “Age ain’t nothin’ but a number baby!” and, I’d rather be older and happy living my dream than old and wondering…what might have been!!! Best of luck with your decision!
Right now I am seconding guessing myself as to whether I am smart enough to do this. I have always had a very keen interest in medicine. I have always felt it was not an attainable goal for me because I am not smart enough. I think I am though. The thing is if I really want something I will excell at it and I have proven this to myself in the past. Example in high school I took Vo-Tech school and nurses aid training. I got all A's and I learned everything I could in that class. We had to learn all the bones and the major muscles I could rattle them off like it was nothing. I ended up working with severly handicapped kids only 1 other person in the class got this job all the others had jobs working in nursing homes. The job was far more challenging that yopu would think.
I think once I get back into the classroom I'll feel better. I have the 100% support of my husband which really helps me. I am planning on taking biology and chemistry this fall. I am nervous about the chemistry. I attempted it 20 years ago when I first went to college, but I couldn't grasp it at all plus it was taught by the head of the department and he was teaching way over our heads. It was supose to be an introductory class but he thought we already had about 2 years of chemistry 
| QUOTE (CathyR63 @ Aug 26 2003, 05:33 PM) |
| Right now I am seconding guessing myself as to whether I am smart enough to do this. I have always had a very keen interest in medicine. I have always felt it was not an attainable goal for me because I am not smart enough. I think I am though. The thing is if I really want something I will excell at it and I have proven this to myself in the past. |
Hi Cathy,
"Smart" has nothing to do with excelling in medical school and medicine. You have to be a good student. You have to be able to have the study skills that will enable you to learn. People who do well in undergraduate and medical school are not smart but are "smart studiers". Study skills can be learned and practiced as you tackle your undergraduate work. Everytime you take a class, you have an opportunity to pick up a new skill and new information to store in your armory.
If you look around the room and constantly compare yourself to others, you are going to come up short. You are the best that YOU can be. You don't know how to be anyone other than yourself. You have an opportunity every day to do some self improvement. Interest may get you to the door of medicine but daily disciplined study will help you accomplish your dream.
Plot a path to what you want and tick off some measure of progress every day. Your tasks can be as small as learning some factioids for chemistry or contacting some medical schools that interest you. Do one thing everyday that will provide you information and get you closer to your goal. Success builds upon success and soon you will be sitting in your first class in medical school. It goes by much faster than you would think.
Natale
Natalie,
Thanks for that GREAT advice!! I am already working on improving my study and concentration skills. I will go day by day and tackle each thing as it arises. I have wanted this for a very long time and I know i can do it!!
Cathy
Natalie-
I also want to thank you for your awesome advice and for taking the time to give it. That in itself is inspiring.
Thank you,
Michelle
trkk,
When I was 32 and seriously thinking M.D., I was also concerned about the age thing, afterall, I was essentially starting from scratch. I was a stay-at-home mom with ~30 hours college credit. The advice that stuck to me like glue and that I spread where I can was:
"You’re going to be 50 anyway. You might as well do what you want!"
I’m now a 40 year old MED IV and will be 45 when I finish my residency.
So if you want to do it, go for it! There’ll be a lot of us cheering you on. 
Kim
trkk,
Aren’t the folks here truly inspirational! If they can do it somehow, someway, then you can too! I think that you just have to chart your course. In many ways, you are not as behind as you think. Your previous backround aside from IT has provided you some advantages. As I see it, the doors are not closing and leaving you out.
I have different circumstances from those here but I am a former OPM and I will likely be returning to some sort of residency training or schooling as a full fledged member of the baby boom group. When I read about others facing residency over 40 or even 50, I feel so encouraged to not let age be a barrier.
I want to extend my wishes for you to make the decisions that are right for you and as well for your continued success.