Hello oldpremeds! I was so happy to stumble across this site. It is a lonely world out there for those on the non-traditional path.
Here is the situation:
I just graduated from the University of Texas @ austin with a BA in Government and a minor in biology and business as well as satisfying the premed requirements. I had way too much fun for those 5 years, so much so that I graduated with 2.0.
Honestly I am more than capable, considering I almost never attended class I feel like I did pretty well.
I made bad decisions my first time away from home (I was a ‘A’ student in high school) and now I’m 23 and ready to be serious. I want to go to medical school. I refuse to believe that I should call it quits… or should I?
Please help me guys, what do I need to do to realize my dream of being a doctor will medical schools consider an applicant like me?
I have started studying for the MCAT. And I plan on retaking my premed classes.
Thanks!
Welcome Trey 
To answer your question as far as what you need to do to realize your dream of becoming a doctor? Well, by starting here, it seems as though you already have.
23 is young, you are lucky you’re getting a start now. I’ll never be the one to say that ANYONE should call it quits especially even before you’re tried. I’m sort of in the same boat though, I too had a lot of fun in college and graduated with a GPA similar to yours. I’m retaking my pre-reqs now and essentially staring over.
Why are you studying for the MCAT?? I think it is premature to be doing that, really. You havent even started taking your courses yet, I dont think you should put more on your plate than you need to.
It’s the anxiety and excitement of it all that gets you to jump in full speed ahead, I know. I put my MCAT book down knowing I wasnt going to be taking it for a while. Sometimes I’ll do a couple of questions from various sections just to keep my mind from rotting. I dont get too tangled up in it though. At least not now.
Go for it Trey, if you really want it, it is there for the taking. Just work at it and stay positive.
- Trey Said:
How many pre-reqs were included in your Bio minor? What kind of grades did you get in them? Having a degree already, but being (I think) one year younger than the minimum to get financial aid without parental financial data, it might be good to take a year off before pitching yourself right back into the muck. Have you done any community service or volunteering yet? If not, perhaps it'd be better for you to do something like Americorps for a year?
Having just graduated myself I cannot imagine going right back into it again. I need this break.
- PixieSanders Said:
- Trey Said:
How many pre-reqs were included in your Bio minor? What kind of grades did you get in them? Having a degree already, but being (I think) one year younger than the minimum to get financial aid without parental financial data, it might be good to take a year off before pitching yourself right back into the muck. Have you done any community service or volunteering yet? If not, perhaps it'd be better for you to do something like Americorps for a year?
Having just graduated myself I cannot imagine going right back into it again. I need this break.
I had to take 12 hours, 6 of which are upper division. I had Cs in all of them. (just not taking things seriously). I have volunteered in a medical/dental clinic.
do you think retaking the premed courses would be worth doing? would it make a difference?
- putnam2800 Said:
Why are you studying for the MCAT?? I think it is premature to be doing that, really. You havent even started taking your courses yet, I dont think you should put more on your plate than you need to.
It's the anxiety and excitement of it all that gets you to jump in full speed ahead, I know. I put my MCAT book down knowing I wasnt going to be taking it for a while. Sometimes I'll do a couple of questions from various sections just to keep my mind from rotting. I dont get too tangled up in it though. At least not now.
Go for it Trey, if you really want it, it is there for the taking. Just work at it and stay positive.
Your words are encouraging! thank you. I decided to study the MCAT because the questions on the test seem to be the same as the classes that I am going to retake. But you're right, I need to be careful about overwhelming my self. Do medical schools ignore folks with the kinds of GPAs in our range? Am I preeminently exiled to the Caribbean?
Check the admissions standards for all the Medical Schools you are interested in applying to. Some schools may turn out to be out of reach with your GPA. This does not mean you have to go the Caribbean rout.
Some schools weigh your most recent academic work in specific pre-med science courses higher than your older non-science course work. For these schools, if you re-take courses you received lower grades and show substantial improvement, it will help.
It is good to demonstrate that you can now perform well in a rigorous academic setting.
You can use MCAT study materials to check your current level of understanding but it is pre-mature. You would be better off bringing your GPA up with stellar performances in the foundation science courses. Take the MCAT as close to finishing your pre-med course work and as close to applying to med school as you can with proper study time allowances.
Actually studying for the MCAT should be the equivalent of a whole semester or even a years worth of pre-med course work and effort. You will need the understanding gained from all your pre-med courses to even begin to comprehensively study for the MCAT.
Welcome to OPM, you are among kindred spirits. First thing you need to do is slow down and relax. I am going to be blunt, but realize that I have been there as well: With your current GPA of 2.0 you will not be accepted to medical school. It is too low even for the big 4 of the Caribbean. You have a lot of work to do. The bad news is, you have a lot of work to do. The good news is, it has been done.
Look for Old Man Dave’s Diary and you will see that he went from a GPA of less than 1 to a physician. It is a very inspiring story showing you that you can do it.
But you need to prove to the admissions committee that you are not the same person. You have to retake your pre-reqs, may have to do an SMP, take some time off and work for a little while to let your brain cool down before starting again. Do not even think about the MCAT, you are not in a position to take them. They are good only for 3 years and if it takes you longer than that to retake your classes you will have to retake the MCAT. When once is enough you do not want to take it again if you do not need to.
So in conclusion:
- Take a break and cool the brain
- Make a plan
- Tackle your poor grades
- Take the MCAT when grades are ready
Good luck. Hopefully, you can come to the conference and be able to discuss the situation with the representatives from schools that will be there.
- gabelerman Said:
I'm wondering if I have to raise my entire GPA? or can I just retake the prereqs and improve my GPA in those?
- gabelerman Said:
take some time off and work for a little while to let your brain cool down before starting again. Do not even think about the MCAT
ha, I appreciate you advice on letting my brain cool down. The problem has been that I havent been using my brain. I felt like college was a giant vacation. I just didn't take it seriously. My brain is super cool, Now that I have graduated I've realized my mistake and I desperately want to go to medical school. i want to put my brain in gear. I feel extremely motivated.
The MCAT material that I've covered doesn't seem to intimidating, I understand the concepts and i've been getting about 50 percent right without studying. If I shouldn't be studying the MCAT, what should I focused on? Any suggestions on resources? I've been watching a lot of http://www.khanacademy.org/.
I appreciate your advise, obviously I haven't approached this in the right way. ha.
With a 2.0 GPA you are going to need a lot more than just the 30 to 40 hours of pre-reqs to repair that. And more than likeley even with an upward trend you are going to need a GPA of at least 3.0 to make it past the auto cutline.
You have to get you application out of the auto reject pile before you can even show that you are grown up. Others on here might know of a better way than taking like 60 hours of 4.0 classes (possibly Masters with retaking pre-reqs?). I am just looking at your 2.0 and basically to raise that to a 3.0 you would need an equal # of hours at 4.0 level.
That being said you have a lot more time to “fix” your GPA problems.
maybe I am missing something, even people with 2.0s got into med school according to this table.
https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/ table24-…
if I do well on the MCAT and I give myself a litte GPA boost with the prereqs. I feel like I have a chance. How do I find the medschool that would take that kind of combo?
I havent really thought of getting a Masters, I wonder if I can get in somewhere with this sort of GPA.
Just to add to what BaileyPup said: SMPs & formal post-bacs also have GPA minimums for admissions to their programs. You would have to be at least minimally competitive for those programs before you could use one of those programs to springboard into med school. Something to keep in mind.
- Trey Said:
Do you want to be an MD or a DO? DO allows grade replacement and the schools tend to consider the person on paper more, so maybe you could get away with doing all the pre-reqs plus a high number of upper division non-required science courses (ie DIY post-bacc); MD does not do grade replacement, and you're competing against 4.0 BCPM, 3.7 overall kids, which means lots more work, maybe even a new degree worth of work.
- In reply to:
Not to be harsh, but you didn't realize the mistake until you graduated. I'd say you still need time off. The adcoms want to see a maturity or progression after such a low GPA.
My gut-feeling is that you should really take this next year to get clinical experience and be involved in your community *first*. If you still feel "extremely motivated" to go into medicine after exposure to the field then you can do a DIY post-bacc, get your pre-reqs and a few UD science classes and *then* worry about the MCAT...
Dude, I don’t want to be harsh here but, you are saying you want to be serious and then you argue your point with a chart that shows that less than 10% of those with GPA’s less than 3.0 are getting accepted. Look at the MCAT’s of the folks who were accepted, most of them were above 33. Do you know how hard a 33 is to pull? That is like scoring better than 75% of all of the folks who sit for the MCAT at the same time you do.
You come here asking about if this is possible when you should be looking at if it is probable. The way your stats are now it is highly improbable that you are going to get in, now if you apply to every med-school in the country and get a 35 on the MCAT is it possible that you will get in? yes it is possible.
Look, I messed around my first semester of Ugrad and got a 1.4, but I turned it around and graduated with a 3.4, since then I have turned in A’s and B’s in my accounting classes, right after ugrad and my pre-reqs for medschool, and I am still not sure I will get in this cycle. I understand what it is like to look back on your undergrad and wish it wasn’t there, but it is and it will never go away. What I have done to move myself forward is 1. Grow up 10 years 2. Taken even more classes 3. Retaken the prereqs I messed up.
It can be done and is done on this board everyday, but there is no quick path to getting to medical school. If you want to do it and you put in the hard work there are many examples on here how it pays off, but there is no one on here in your situation who got from point C to med-school quickly. Like I said earlier, you’re lucky you’re 23 so you have time to make up the slack.
Couple of points: There is a myth that your application won’t get looked at if your GPA is less than a 3.0. Not necessarily true. However, a GPA less than 3.0 with retaking the pre-reqs and not much else is not going to cut it. Yes, medical schools look at “upward trends”. But an upward trend that consists mostly of retaking courses is not really all that impressive. Acing your retakes and then acing a slew of upper level courses is a better idea.
I tend to concur with some of the other posters - this is a great time to take a year or so and volunteer, get clinical experience, research experience, climb the himalayas, whatever - so that your mediocre GPA application becomes more interesting to an adcom. A year with Americorp or Teach for America or some other volunteer organization would do amazing things for your application.
You’re going to have a hard time getting into either a master’s program or a post-bacc program with a 2.0 (I speak from experience here). Most (serious) Masters level programs and post-bacc programs have 3.0 GPA minimums. And honestly, other than a SMP or a hard science Masters, a Masters degree isn’t going to help you much. You need to raise your undergrad GPA and undergrad and graduate GPAs are calculated separately on the medical school application. Lots of people do Master of Public Health degrees or things of that nature thinking it will help boost their application - for the most part, it doesn’t. The best predictors of success in medical school classes are success in the pre-reqs and upper level undergrad sciences and high MCAT scores.
you are not being realistic. Of the 240 people with a 2.0GPA that applied, only 6 were accepted. That is an acceptance rate of 2.5%. With more than 35000 people applying to medical school, and the applicant pool being much more competitive (both MD and DO. At my school, the average UG GPA is a 3.7 and the average MCAT is a 29, highest in the nation. We have 150 seats and about 5000 applicants. Meaning that only 3% of applicants will attend).
You are not competitive enough period. Your best bet would be to retake the pre-reqs and do graduate level science courses to prove that you are serious and that you can do the work.
The average application season will cost you about $2500 including MCAT, application, and secondaries. With your numbers, you will just be throwing that money away.
We are not here to steer you in the wrong direction. We are here to help you since we have been there and done that. I graduated from UG with a 2.57 GPA and it took me 10 years to start medical school after that. I graduated from college in 1997 and started medical school in 2007.
you are starting to sprint, when this is a marathon.
I’m going to echo what a lot of other people here have said. I’ll stand by my usual opinion of “nothing’s impossible.” But that doesn’t mean easy, nor does it mean straightforward. It’s not a case of “do this, this, and that” and you’ll be competitive. As it’s been pointed out, the acceptance rate for people with your GPA is 2.5%.
I’d encourage you to pursue medical school if it’s your dream. But as with all of us, it’s an analysis of cost-benefit. We all need to look at the costs of strengthening our applications weighed against the odds. What happens if you take 10 years doing additional academic programs and acquire $100k of student debt in the process, but in the end you still don’t get in and that additional debt didn’t go toward programs that translate to higher-paying jobs? The analysis of risk is one only you can make.
The biggest suggestion I have is that you absolutely, positively need a Plan B, and that Plan B needs to be your focus for the time being. This isn’t advising you to abandon your dream. It’s recognizing reality that there’s going to be a lot of time between now and your dream, and that time is going to involve quite a few rent checks and car payments. Moreover, I did say in no uncertain terms that anything’s possible. Again, we have members who have done similar to what you hope to do. However, there’s a big difference between “possible” and “likely.” The possibility that you’re in too deep is real, and it’s one that you need to plan for. Look for a job, see what you can get to pay the bills. Then look at how to pursue medical school in the meantime.
Also, I’m not at all impugning how motivated you are to do well in medical school or how well you’re capable of doing well. I went from a 2.7 undergrad to a Master’s program where I currently have a 3.81- so I entirely understand the frustration of knowing you can do well if only you could get the chance. But you need to accept that the empirical data indicates that accepting you is a huge risk for an an ADCOM, especially if many other students are safer choices. Honestly, I applied to a bunch of MS programs and was only accepted to one- and at that, only because my GREs were 99th percentile and the one I was accepted to put me on a probationary status starting out. (I suspect a few other programs wanted to accept me but were unable to for financial reasons, but that’s a separate issue.)
Tl;dr: This is a marathon, not a sprint. Begin working in earnest on a non-med school career, and make getting into medical school a major side project. Whenever you do anything ask: is this helping me get into medical school? If it’s strengthening your application or helping you pay bills, the answer is yes.
In your shoes, this would be my plan:
Forget the MCAT for a bit.
Take the GRE and kill it.
Find a post-bacc program that will accept you and earn As (it may not be enough to significantly raise your GPA, but the solid upward trend would support your personal statement description of the younger foolish partier you were and wiser focused person you’ve become). In the (likely) event you can’t find one that will accept you, retake your pre-reqs and then take some upper-level courses to show that you didn’t just get the good grades because it was “easier the second time around”.
Get some serious volunteer time in while doing the above. Ideally both medically related and non-medical. Get multiple shadowing opportunities. Maybe get really lucky and find a doctor who feels like having a mentor (s)he can take under their wing. This will add even further to the narrative you are building of a more mature, focused individual.
Finally, blow the MCAT out of the water.
If you manage all the above, I personally think you would have a decent chance of being one of that 2.5% in a couple years.
Of course, this is all just personal belief and makes a lot of assumptions about your scholastic ability once you have decided to focus instead of screw around.
I might be voted off the island for saying this, but I am not in the ‘forget the MCAT’ boat.
Well, assuming you have completed the ‘standard’ pre-reqs. 2 semesters with lab of each: Gen Bio, Physics, Gen Chem and Orgo. Blah blah blah.
I say pay for one of the official MCAT practice tests. If you get around a 23 or above, take a condensed MCAT prep course (No I don’t work for Kaplan), though it may be getting a little late to find one. Dominate the MCAT (30+), Apply this cycle, study your butt off this summer, crush the MCAT, and see if you get interviews or are waitlisted.
If it seems that you aren’t getting interviews, Study and crush the GRE (Though some SMP’s don’t require a GRE), grab a Master’s degree in hard science. Crush that (i.e. mGPA above 3.7) then you shouldn’t have a problem getting in somewhere.
With you already having a bachelors and what appears to be your pre-reqs out of the way, I say try for this cycle. What could it hurt? Besides your wallet. 
Oh I didn’t say what to do if you aren’t getting a 23+ out of the gate on the MCAT. Then crush the GRE and grab the masters, as I outlined above. Without a strong MCAT you can’t demonstrate that you have corrected the problem from your undergrad and mastered the material.
If you do get a <23 on that practice exam, don’t freak out. It just means that the info is not as fresh in your mind as it needs to be for the MCAT. Then, I agree with all the ‘Forgot the MCAT’ peeps. Getting the Master’s will help you re-remember some of that material, and you can start studying for the other stuff on the exam while you are getting the Master’s.
I wish you good luck, and lots of caffeine. You’ll need the caffeine. 
- Yerivf Said:
Many SMPs (esp. those with linkage) require the MCAT though for exactly the reasons you describe. So the OP may end up having to take the MCAT after all if s/he goes this route.
Trey,
I see you graduated from a public university in TX. From what I’ve read on these forums, TX has something that I think is called a Fresh Start program that basically nukes your entire undergraduate education. I don’t know any of the specifics about the program nor do I know what the eligibility criteria are, if any.
It seems pretty drastic to erase the past 5 years worth of your work. You would not be able to find employment in a job requiring a college degree if you were to do this. Also, I don’t know what impact it could have on future financial aid or on your eligibility to re-enter college to try it again.
However, it may be something worth looking into for your situation.