Given my stats and hopeful MCAT score (equated to the old MCAT which is not 1:1, I realize but approximation should still be close)… here is my list of schools.
Guidance on which ones I could eliminate based on my age or more politically appropriate stated: might otherwise find reason to reject me as a candidate?? :lol:
My top choices are numbered in order, the others I have no particular preference…
1 Mayo
2 Minnesota
3 Duke
4 Georgetown
5 Emory
6 Boston
7 Massachusetts
South Florida
Dartmouth
Baylor
Central Florida
UC San Diego
New York University
MC Wisconsin
Kentucky
Florida
Maryland
UCLA-Geffen
Connecticut
Wisconsin
Case Western
Ohio State
Vermont
U Washington
Colorado
George Washington
Brown-Alpert
MC Georgia
Oakland University William Beaumont Medical School
Stony Brook
Cincinnati
Hawaii-Burns
Tennessee
North Carolina
Louisville
Northeastern Ohio
Southern Cal-Keck
Tufts
New York Medical
Michigan State
Nevada
Wake Forest
South Carolina-Columbia
South Carolina-Greenville
I am also working on my school list and it’s a bit overwhelming. Do you mind sharing your criteria for adding a school to or striking one from the list? I see, for instance, that from Ohio you have Case, Ohio State, Cincinnati and NEOMED as candidates but not Toledo and Wright State.
You may want to check out a blog post I did recently on making a school list:
http://www.thompsonadvising.com/blog/medical-school-lists/#.VR4J6jvF9Vt
Hopefully you’ll find it helpful!
Cheers,
Liza
Lots of different state schools on your list. Not a killer, but keep in mind that most public schools have a large in-state bias. Definitely not impossible to land a seat at an out of state school though. I think the MSAR shows numbers for out of state interviews/matriculants. It’s just a game of cost vs risk.
Brown takes a decent portion of their class from the undergrad link program, leaving fewer slots of their already small class size for the mass population.
Fun fact that they told us at the Georgetown interview: their stats show that only something like 3% of people who interview at Georgetown don’t land a seat at some medical school. Not sure if it’s MD schools or a combo of MD/DO.
You might consider adding Hofstra. I had a couple of 30 somethings in my interview group and the interviewers seemed to be interested in life experience versus academic experience. The curriculum leans heavy on the self-teaching style of learning if that’s your thing.
Just out of curiosity, is Baylor AMCAS or the Texas version?
@SpdRcr wrote:
Do you mind sharing your criteria for adding a school to or striking one from the list?
To start I limited the states I don’t want to move to. Growing up in the Midwest, I eliminated those states that I just simply don’t have a strong interest in living there for 4 years (or longer dependent upon residency). Having traveled extensively for 10 years, I also chose states where I could see my son being comfortable and going to school.
Our hope is that he will get accepted wherever I go. So, I needed some schools that also cater to the non-trad undergraduate student as well (Mayo doesn’t fit that but if - BIG IF - I were accepted there, he could go to the U of MN - Rochester, or Twin Cities, or Mankato …)
With the OH schools specifically, I know people already in those programs so it was an easy “keep” v. eliminate. Nothing more there.
MN and WI are easy for me - as they are home… the rest?
Mayo is a LONG LONG reach for me but I have familiar connections there dating back to 1950s and 60s. I will never be accepted there but I am applying anyway as sort of a … well, that’s related to family.
Likewise, I will never get into Duke but if I don’t at least spend the $100 to try, I cannot ever say I was rejected
Same with Emory although with Emory, I know of two people there who loved it!The rest? that’s why I asked you guys!! LOL - I will probably buy the MSAR and start my own spreadsheet.
Taking out Brown and Baylor, I’m down to 42 schools. Will look at Hofstra.
1 Mayo
2 Minnesota
3 Duke
4 Georgetown
5 Emory
6 Boston
[s:3rsefjk5]7 Massachusetts[/s:3rsefjk5]
South Florida
[s:3rsefjk5]Dartmouth[/s:3rsefjk5]
[s:3rsefjk5]Baylor[/s:3rsefjk5]
Central Florida
[s:3rsefjk5]UC San Diego[/s:3rsefjk5]
New York University
MC Wisconsin
Kentucky
Florida
Maryland
[s:3rsefjk5]UCLA-Geffen[/s:3rsefjk5]
[s:3rsefjk5]Connecticut[/s:3rsefjk5]
[s:3rsefjk5]Wisconsin[/s:3rsefjk5]
Case Western
Ohio State
Vermont
U Washington
Colorado
George Washington
[s:3rsefjk5]Brown-Alpert[/s:3rsefjk5]
MC Georgia
Oakland University William Beaumont Medical School
Stony Brook
Cincinnati
[s:3rsefjk5]Hawaii-Burns[/s:3rsefjk5]
[s:3rsefjk5]Tennessee[/s:3rsefjk5]
[s:3rsefjk5]North Carolina[/s:3rsefjk5]
Louisville
Northeastern Ohio
[s:3rsefjk5]Southern Cal-Keck[/s:3rsefjk5]
Tufts
New York Medical
[s:3rsefjk5]Michigan State[/s:3rsefjk5]
[s:3rsefjk5]Nevada[/s:3rsefjk5]
Wake Forest
South Carolina-Columbia
South Carolina-Greenville
@Kennymac wrote:
Lots of different state schools on your list. Not a killer, but keep in mind that most public schools have a large in-state bias. Definitely not impossible to land a seat at an out of state school though. I think the MSAR shows numbers for out of state interviews/matriculants. It’s just a game of cost vs risk.
Brown takes a decent portion of their class from the undergrad link program, leaving fewer slots of their already small class size for the mass population.
That's actually a common misconception about Brown. The thing is, the BS/MD program (Program in Liberal Medical Education) application is completely separate from the AMCAS pool, with a separate admissions office. There are roughly 30-40 PLME students every year. The Brown Med class size is now up to 144 -- so that's over 100 slots for the regular pool, which is the same size as a number of other med schools on Adoc2be's list. And *because* of the PLME students, the regular admissions *actually favors* non-trad students to balance out the class. In fact at my postbac program, my advisor actively discouraged students that were recent grads (i.e. "traditionally aged") from even applying to Brown. Anyway, I feel that this misconception comes up a lot both on this forum as well as on SDN, so just wanted to say something. :)
Also, unless you're applying MD/PhD, UMass doesn't accept applications from out-of-state students (you need either a high school diploma from a Mass school, or 5 years of documents like tax forms proving that you're a resident).
I'd agree that Hofstra's a good choice for non-trad students. Also, University of Rochester and Miami Miller.
Hadn’t looked at brown for the past cycle, glad to know their numbers are up. I withdrew pre-secondary submission in last year’s cycle due to my own view that I didn’t stand a chance for one of their 60 or so open seats (my numbers could be way off). Thanks for clearing up my misperception.
MSAR is worth it’s weight in gold. Even then, I’d still only use it to direct your research on schools. It’s great for helping you limit the bulk of schools but lacks a lot of detail that is found on school sites.
Hi Kenny - I did buy the MSAR and started using the filters that are provided. Helped me whittle down a few more.
I have to believe someone(s) on here can whittle a few more off of it due to my age and say, “they are not known for being friendly toward non-trads” in which case, I can strike them out as well…
I was only 31 when I applied, so I didn’t really scour the MSAR/school sites/forums for age concerns. I had 5 MD/1 DO interviews and they all seemed open to non trads:
Colorado (was out of state applicant)
Hofstra (private)
Wake (private)
NYMC (private)
Georgetown (private)
CUSOM (private/DO)
I was definitely in the upper age range for my interview groups though.
I had bad luck with the other public schools I applied to, but it’s probably a combination of average GPA, online prereqs, no volunteering, and applying a little later into the cycle. Too many variables to offer any insight that may help you out.
Thank you!! Georgetown is at the top of my list thought I am out of state. My GPA is pretty high, all pre-reqs taken at U of MN, volunteering is who I am not what I do (both Ronald McDonald house, inner city schools, disabled children at horse farm, the rescue horse, American Red Cross, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, etc …) and I’ve shadowed a few docs (rural family med, ortho, and infectious diseases at cancer center).
BUT I am 50.
The interview day at Georgetown was one of the best ones I went to. I wasn’t overly impressed with the facilities, but I really liked their philosophy towards medicine. It’s also a good place if you want to get involved with policy. Lots of networking opportunities with people in government. The DC cost of living (and travel time if living outside of DC) was a big detractor for me. I withdrew before I got their decision.
IF I get an i-view there, I’ll be hitting you up for pointers 
if you don’t mind, that is!!
I’d love to get into policy making, inner city development for underprivileged kids and single parents (moms or dads). Having been on SNAP, albeit for probably vastly different reasons, I get poverty. So many policies - in health, education, and social systems - are written by people who have never walked a minute in most of the impoverished’s shoes. It’s eye opening.
I visited Georgetown back in August unofficially. I LOVED the school, loved … well, I have a Georgetown Hoya sweatshirt from 1984.
I think there’s an interview thread somewhere with more details, but before I forget everything…
The interview itself was maybe 30 minutes with a member of the faculty. It was very laid back and conversational. She asked a lot about my past to get a feel for me, I got to ask her questions about her and the school (she was relatively new). She asked me about defensive medicine and my opinion of it (I knew the concept but not the term, bad on me) and an ethics question about unqualified medical personnel (read: pre-med/med student) going to third world areas and performing medical procedures.
All in all, Georgetown was a great interview experience.
A few comments.
First, have you looked at schools’ mission/vision statements? These should be listed in the MSAR, and they can say a lot about a school, whether it’s research focused, service focused, primary care focused, etc. Also, the MSAR used to (and hopefully still does) list whether schools require volunteer work and/or research work as a graduation requirement. That’s another indicator of the school’s values. In addition, I’d look at the MSAR stats about what specialties students are matching into. If you’re considering primary care, you might want to lean toward schools that are matching more students into primary care (or not).
Second, the schools that are nontraditional friendly can be surprising. For example, I always thought of the more “competitive” schools (e.g., Ivy League) as less nontrad friendly. But Cornell (where I’m going this fall) makes a point to welcome its older students. At its revisit weekend later this month, one of the events is a nontraditional student mixer. I guess my point is that it’s really hard to weed out schools on this factor.
Third, I would take a hard look at the state schools you’re considering. I can’t remember if it’s in the MSAR or elsewhere, but there are stats out there that show what percent of accepted students were in-state vs. out-of-state residents in the last cycle. That’s a big clue as to your chances. There are a few schools I already know don’t accept many from out of state; I looked into them when I was applying. For example, applying to the California schools is probably not the best use of your money, in my opinion. From what I understand, they are the most stringent about taking in-state residents, unless you’re applying MD/PhD. Getting in to UCLA or Keck or UCSD as a non-resident is quite unlikely, no matter your stats. I would spend your money on schools where you have a better shot. University of Washington, I believe, is also pretty non-welcoming to out-of-state students. Same with Hawaii – they want states residents who will stay on the island to practice medicine; they’re pretty clear about that (or were when I looked into the school a couple years ago).
On the other hand, some state schools are not so restrictive. Like Kennymac, I got an interview (and acceptance) from University of Colorado, so I can attest that this school does look to out-of-state students. I also got an interview (but not an acceptance) from Indiana University School of Medicine.
Either way, bear in mind that you will pay a lot more as an out-of-state student. At Colorado, I believe in-state costs were about $50,000/year while out-of-state student costs were $85,000/year. That’s a rough estimate, but you get the idea. And even though you’re now living on Colorado (obviously), you can NOT ever become a resident for tuition purposes during your medical school tenure.
On the topic of money, the MSAR also lists average student indebtedness after graduation. This can give you an idea of how much aid is available to students, so it’s something to consider as well.
Hope this helps … best wishes as you decide. Such an exciting time for you!
I will echo some of the other posts and say that UCSD and HI-Burns seem to take very few OOSers. Seems the case with UMass too. Schools like Ohio State and Penn State seem to be big on OOS, and if you can do Virginia, all the VA schools seem to like OOSers. I’m basing all this on a spreadsheet floating out there titled “Medical School Matriculants Data”. It’s a bit dated (2011), but I checked UCSD’s website where they’ve posted 2013 matriculant info and the OOS percent was the same as that for 2011. I doubt the IS/OOS mix changes dramatically from year to year. One other thing to consider is that schools like GW, GTown, NYMC each receive 10K+ applications. Then there’s the OOS CoA which can be insane at some places but may not be an issue at all if you choose non-(FP, Peds, Psych). The age factor though - no idea. Good luck.
The University of Nevada only accepts OOS applicants from Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Wyoming http://medicine.nevada.edu/asa/admissions/applicants/out-of-state-applicants . I was wondering why you eliminated Baylor from the list? According to their website, the student body ages range from 19-52 years of age https://www.bcm.edu/education/schools/medical-school/prospective-students/our-students.
Thanks for pointing that out, EE. I took Nevada off. Baylor is out because it appears the OOS is only 25%. I don’t think I’m that awesome to be included in the 25%…
DH - I’ll look at the VA schools I qualify for…
I can echo what other people said: Look at their OOS acceptance rates. AAMC usually has a document / data table with this info. Mission statements (including any religious angles, if that’s an issue), their percent residency matches by specialty (if you have an idea where you’re headed).
Also, some people find it helpful, others don’t, but I encountered a rough metric called “the LizzyM” score. Supposedly, the person on “That other site” who created it is an adcom member at some (supposedly prestigious?) school. If you google it, it provides a rough way to compare your GPA+MCAT versus the average matriculant GPA+MCAT of schools. I plan on using this to help figure out which schools to include / exclude if I’m feeling borderline on a school. I wouldn’t take it as gospel, but I’ll take any help I can get when whittling down a huge list.
I just made my final list after getting my preliminary MCAT percentiles (that helped narrow it down). My fiancé and I had a few overarching goals in our strategy:
- Schools in the area (we live in DC)
- Schools in TX (we met while living there, though we understand the out-of-state applicant situation)
- Schools in places we could actually live and he could actually work (read: larger/major cities with airport access for his work travel)
My fiancé took a new job recently for the sole purpose of giving us flexibility. He works from home with travel, which affords us a lot of room to move if we have to. That said, we already have a home and mortgage in DC (technically Maryland, but barely), so staying would be the easiest. Like I said, we understand how the TX applications work - I was previously considered in-state and I’m a University of Texas (Austin) alumni for my master’s degree, so we feel like it is a risk we can take, financially. We found a number that works for us and have done the finances to estimate travel to interviews (an overestimation, to be safe) and are comfortable with our list.
In addition to geography, I’m a former Teach for America teacher and finding schools with community medicine/urban medicine tracks is important to me, so that also helped to dictate my choices. My post-bacc advisor gave me the good advice to find schools where my personality is a better fit than just the MCAT and GPA statistics. For instance, she told me I would probably get into XYZ school, but would hate it because of the competitive atmosphere. Valid point and something I’m actively researching as I move forward and hopefully get a chance to visit some schools through interviews.
Essentially my list boils down to 24 MD schools through AMCAS, 5 MD + 1 DO through TMDSAS, and 2 additional DO schools through AACOMAS. Geographically we identified cities we want to/can live in and selected ~2 schools/city, plus the 5 in the DC area. Then we rounded it out with a few more “stretch” or “wouldn’t it be cool to live there” cities. I am fortunate to have the financial ability to spend $3500 on applications, and we feel that optionality is worth the money at this point in our lives and careers.