I am currently enrolled in general chem I and Bio I. Things are going relatively smoothly the first 3 weeks so far considering it’s been a long time (like last century 
) since I last encountered either of those 2 subjects.
Although I always go “all-in” and won’t settle for anything less then perfection, ocassionally reality sets in, and due to 1 cirumstance or another, might be unable to obtain an A/A- grade. During my first undergrad “tour” I can remember a few circumstances where I was screwed over by lazy group members for calc II group assignments, which dropped my grade from an A- to a B+. (So situations like that)
So I was just wondering what sort of grades are considered competitive for the BCM prerequisite courses. I guess I can ask this question another way, which is “If I get a B in say both General Chem and Bio should I even bother continuing with the process?”
I had set up a checkpoint for myself. On December 2007 I will analyze how good my performance has been thus far, if my performance has not been competitive enough, I will probably return to the job market for a full-time position in what I used to do. But the question I guess is figuring out what “competitive” means ?
- ipitydafoo Said:
) since I last encountered either of those 2 subjects. Although I always go "all-in" and won't settle for anything less then perfection, ocassionally reality sets in, and due to 1 cirumstance or another, might be unable to obtain an A/A- grade. During my first undergrad "tour" I can remember a few circumstances where I was screwed over by lazy group members for calc II group assignments, which dropped my grade from an A- to a B+. (So situations like that)
So I was just wondering what sort of grades are considered competitive for the BCM prerequisite courses. I guess I can ask this question another way, which is "If I get a B in say both General Chem and Bio should I even bother continuing with the process?"
I had set up a checkpoint for myself. On December 2007 I will analyze how good my performance has been thus far, if my performance has not been competitive enough, I will probably return to the job market for a full-time position in what I used to do. But the question I guess is figuring out what "competitive" means ?
I think to be competitive you would have to have a pretty good BCPM GPA but, from what I gather, interviewers do ask about grades (or you can tell them) in the interview sometimes and you could use that time to explain that other people caused you to get a poor grade on group assignments which damaged your overall grade for that course.
Look at my statistics thread for information on competitive science GPAs...looks like 3.8 and 3.9 are the most competitive but people have gotten in with a BCPM GPA as low as 3.27. And that's just from twenty random profiles I looked at...I'm sure people have gotten in with BCPM GPAs possibly even lower than that (although that would certainly not be competitive).
I would think as long as most of your BCPM courses are A's then you'll be fine. A few B's won't hurt ya. And even if you somehow did end up with a BCPM GPA, as long as it's 3.0 or above, I'd say make up for it with a good MCAT and rock on.
- Tim Said:
- ipitydafoo Said:
) since I last encountered either of those 2 subjects. Although I always go "all-in" and won't settle for anything less then perfection, ocassionally reality sets in, and due to 1 cirumstance or another, might be unable to obtain an A/A- grade. During my first undergrad "tour" I can remember a few circumstances where I was screwed over by lazy group members for calc II group assignments, which dropped my grade from an A- to a B+. (So situations like that)
So I was just wondering what sort of grades are considered competitive for the BCM prerequisite courses. I guess I can ask this question another way, which is "If I get a B in say both General Chem and Bio should I even bother continuing with the process?"
I had set up a checkpoint for myself. On December 2007 I will analyze how good my performance has been thus far, if my performance has not been competitive enough, I will probably return to the job market for a full-time position in what I used to do. But the question I guess is figuring out what "competitive" means ?
I think to be competitive you would have to have a pretty good BCPM GPA but, from what I gather, interviewers do ask about grades (or you can tell them) in the interview sometimes and you could use that time to explain that other people caused you to get a poor grade on group assignments which damaged your overall grade for that course.
Look at my statistics thread for information on competitive science GPAs...looks like 3.8 and 3.9 are the most competitive but people have gotten in with a BCPM GPA as low as 3.27. And that's just from twenty random profiles I looked at...I'm sure people have gotten in with BCPM GPAs possibly even lower than that (although that would certainly not be competitive).
I would think as long as most of your BCPM courses are A's then you'll be fine. A few B's won't hurt ya. And even if you somehow did end up with a BCPM GPA, as long as it's 3.0 or above, I'd say make up for it with a good MCAT and rock on.
I dissagree, I think you did well and it takes time to get up to speed, yes a 3.0 is pretty good most people who get accepted into medschool DO NOT HAVE 4.0 and 3.89 Averages, at least half have below a 3.7 which leaves room for some B's. I dunno, go to MD applicants and see for yourself. I know a lot of people in the GPA range of 3.5, I just wouldn't give up cause I did not get some A's, I wouldn't be in my last semester in Basic Sci in medschool now if I did that.
Don't base Medschool on just GPA there are many other factors that go into acceptance as well.
Just my opinion.
Tim where is the Data from because the Data I see says that 3.6 is very Competitive for most schools. There is a tool at www.studentdoc.com that can tell you how competative GPA and MCAT are.
IPityDaFoo,
As another poster pointed out, a couple of B’s don’t make much difference; many people get into medical school with B’s and C’s on their transcripts.
It sounds like you’re having some second thoughts. Medicine is a huge commitment of your time and money, be sure about what you really want to do. If you’re feeling like stopping, then you may need to do some serious soul searching, and maybe do some more hospital volunteering and shadowing physicians.
Don’t get me wrong; I hope you end up choosing medicine–but you have to be sure.
Best of luck,
If you have to do damage control of a previous poor GPA then you need to get A’s. Sure, a B here or there is NOT the end of the world but it seems that you are setting yourself up for failure with this thinking. Go in thinking that you will get A’s and forget about classmates having anything to do with lesser grades. Sure this can happen for one project, but to end up with a lower score just due to a project will not go well with adcoms.
As non-trads the proof lies within your RECENT GPA so get the best possible grades.
You know I understand now TIM thinks Competitive is with the top GPA, really this term is used to mean better than the average accepted, Which is closer to 3.6 and 3.5 at most schools ( Not Ivy of course)
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Just some additional info - my undergrad GPA was in Business Admin (3.5 overall). This was a really difficult program to do well grade-wise because professors could only give out x% A’s y% B’s, etc… you get the picture. During this time, I didn’t have any major academic disasters that would require repair now that I’m taking the premed courses post-bacc.
I am not necessarily having 2nd thoughts about this… but part of the problem might be the environment I’m in.
I worked in a pretty demanding consulting job where you could count on people on your team to get stuff done. However, I’m back in school now and I had forgotten that not everyone is going to be so commited and gun-ho about getting stuff done. I got upset over an incident in one of my lab sessions where the group members didn’t really care about the work, since he was graduating soon and taking the course pass/fail. In a situation like that, I typically would not complain to the professor, since this is part of the “challenge” of group work. I think if this persists, I will try talking to the individual first instead.
To conclude, I think my brain just took 1 little incident and plotted a “Doom Scenario” when it wasn’t really warranted.
Anyways, I have my 1st “Real” Exam tomorrow, so I guess I’ll get back to studying. =p
- whuds Said:
Whuds, you are correct, I used competitive as a synonymous term with top GPA. And to your question, I just picked 20 profiles off mdapplicants.com at random and compiled the data then made histograms out of them.
Sure, someone may not get accepted to an Ivy with a 3.2 GPA and a 25 MCAT but they can still get into a state school and/or a DO school so competitive doesn't mean the same as required by any means.
And like Mary said, GPA is only really one part of the application. Considering how many options are out there for people to do damage control with bad grades in the past such as post-baccs, etc. etc., plus the fact that they can make up for them with a good MCAT, or even just interview really well, I don't see any reason for anyone to be held back from getting accepted to med school.
Tim its really cool I felt bad after posting and wanted to make sure I understood you, so thanks! And yes I understand what you did and per stats it’s a valid sample, but I would not make my decision to go to medschool or not go based on grades alone, IE: there are those with 3.0 who go Caribbean and still do well ( one right here). Anyway thank you again.
- whuds Said:
Oh no worries, unlike SDN, I always go off the assumption that anything said here is probably not meant as an insult even if it may seem as such.
and I agree, I wouldn't base my decision off GPA alone either, I was just trying to prove my friend wrong. 
Well, you might be fine. But you could also ask to be moved to a different lab group. It’s fine to tell the professor that you’re very serious about your studies and you’d like to be in a group where people want to really learn the material and not just pass. Sure, talk to your teammate first, but then make a joyful noise and ask to be moved. The standards for “team player” can be just a little lower in freshman and sophomore undergrad classes than you have grown used to in the workplace.
I will tell you that in med school, we were specifically offered the chance for neuroanatomy NOT to reunite with our anatomy lab groups from last semester “if you just can’t stand your lab partners”. So it happens all the time in the best places (assuming just for the sake of argument that med school is the best places, which, since I’m studying for exams right now, is a bit of an effort.)
Since you do have a quite serviceable undergrad GPA, you do have a little bit of slack if a single class causes your grade to drop a little in one class, but I think if you study hard and jolly your classmates along, you’ll be just fine.
The other thing that I think needs to be reiterated is the distinction between old grades and new grades. No question but that college freshmen and sophomores are cut some slack when it comes to grades as long as the trajectory is in the right direction.
But when you go BACK to school and you do it specifically to get into med school (as opposed to being 18 and not having a clue what you want to do), then part of “putting your money where your mouth is” is in getting the grades. You can’t argue that you’re young, that you lacked dedication, that you weren’t exactly sure why you were there, or that you majored in partying. When you have specifically decided to go back, you had better be able to back up that decision with consistent excellence in your grades. No, it doesn’t have to be a 4.0 but quite honestly if I were evaluating the application I would want to see very few Bs and mostly As. That tells me you can back up your decision.
Mary
I have to agree with Mary. You want to have “walked your talk” about your maturity, your ability to do the course work, and your time management skillls (unlike when you were back in college in your youth ). I, too, prefer to see mostly A’s with very few B-type grades. FWIW, the average matriculating gpa is 3.6+ (call it 3.63 for argument’s sake). That’s in each sci, non-sci, and cum.
With applications cruising up each year over the past few years, there may be less slack cut by AdComms for “less-competitive” academic records - those transcripts more heavy in B’s.
Cheers,
Judy
- jcolwell Said:
With applications cruising up each year over the past few years, there may be less slack cut by AdComms for "less-competitive" academic records - those transcripts more heavy in B's.
Cheers,
Judy
Yes Judy this is what I thought. I agree with what you said and the "B's" are usually reserved for the harder classes like organic chem and physics knowing how tough these classes can be.
So to the OP if you really want to be a Doc it does take focus and determination. If unsure then you may not do as well, if you were able to get B's without too much trouble I suspect with determination you can get A's.
Thanks Judith, I think this is the response that kinda summarizes the “expectation-setting dilemma” I was struggling in.