Hello Everyone,
I wanted to know is it a bad idea to take my pre-med classes at a community college? I heard that medical schools look down on you if your science classes come from a community college. I already have a BS in management of Information systems.
Thank you,
Happyn2009
This is a common topic and if you do some searching, you’ll find lots of threads on the topic.
All things being equal, yes, med schools tend to prefer that you not take your courses at a CC. Look at it from their point of view: if you have the choice between a student with a great GPA from a well-known 4 year institution and a student who took all of their sciences at a CC (with unknown rigor) with a great GPA, which student are you going to give more consideration to?
As a rule of thumb, you should always take your pre-reqs at the most rigorous 4 year institution that is available to you and/or you can afford. If a CC is your only options, then you need to do exceptionally well in those courses AND do well on the MCAT. The MCAT can be the great equalizer.
This isn’t to say that you can’t get into a medical school via the CC route, but I think it does put you at a little bit of a competitive disadvantage.
Piping in here… check with your University to see what their official stand on it is. I know University of Washington Medical School says,
“MYTH—You shouldn’t take your science courses at a community college.
FACT—Many students take the first year or even two years of prerequisites at a community college. The important thing is to get started.”
http://www.washington.edu/uaa/gateway/advising/ pre…
What I get from it is that it is fine to take the low level classes at a CC, however, you should take your higher level classes at University to prove you can do that material. But, let’s be honest, I can desire all I want to attend UW, but, financially a CC makes sense. We never really know why someone might have been passed over by a Medical School and we are all trying to put our best foot forward.
In fact, my Chemistry professor at my CC is suppose to be amazing, and nationally known. He is an Organic Chemistry major. I am told that his teaching is excellent. Which means, I am being set up to conquer the MCAT!
I think it is important to find out where that CC stands with your local University.
Even though this subject has been discussed ad nauseum I like to see the discussion. Of course, at times it sends me into pure panic. Most of the time I just do my best and will have to see where it stands. Best wishes to you!
PS If you can afford University, go to University, if you cannot then you have to do what you have to do. Don’t be held back by it.
I went in to see the Univ. of Fl med school advisor, she told me “Do not take your pre. req’s at a community college”, they would not even consider me if I did. I am sure the CC would be really really mad to hear that one! 
But in any case, I think each school is different and like the prevoius poster, it is important to get started - and talk to the med school you want to attend, so they can better guide you.
Perception definitely varies widely on this from med school to med school. If you have a couple of schools you are particularly interested in or are limited to a particular geographic area, it behooves you to call those med schools and get their opinion directly.
Oh my! These advisors are quite the pieces of work! Is that based upon not doing ANY sciences at the University? I will be finishing my degree at the University I can prove that my science grades at CC are accurate of my ability. That’s what makes UW Med happy. However, I would venture to say if you did NO science courses at a University they would indeed throw out an application. I wonder if that’s what the advisor means? Or NO CC sciences period?
What’s sad about not taking CC credits is not all of us can afford 4 years of University. I would hate for that to hold any of us back based upon financial circumstances vs ability and desire. That’s life, right?
Thanks everyone!! I will keep you all posted on what I am going to do.
At my local University I found a page that gave the stats of their Top 10 Feeder Community Colleges. We all know there can be a ton of those in a state. I imagine you want to make sure you enroll in a CC that actually has students that are accepted into your University of choice. Highly recommend doing a search of those numbers.
There are exceptions to every “rule.” When you have a really strong state university, like UW or the California systems, or the New York system, there’s a strong CC network underlying it - for a variety of reasons including that they recognize that everyone can’t get into the University. However, the practices in Washington and California are not ones that can be extrapolated to other locales. For example, in my own state of Virginia, I can guarantee you that the med schools in Virginia or the surrounding states are going to take a dim view of Northern Virginia Community College credits when you could’ve taken those courses at George Mason University.
So to a great extent, the answer may be “it depends.” But probably in MOST places, for MOST students, opting for the 4-year school for your prereqs is the better choice.
Mary
Ask the medical school you are planning on applying to. That’s what I did. I took some freshman science classes at a community college and the upper ones at a 4 year college. I was concerned same as you. The medical school representative at a major university said it didn’t make a difference. Yet, I would still ask them directly.
Just getting started with this forum. I was also concerned about the sciences I am completing at my CC. I’ve taken lower level Bio and Chem and am transferring to a 4 yr school as a Bio major where I will take my Organic and Phys. What confused me was that although you hear the CC courses are frowned upon MOST of the students in my classes were cross-registered from the 4 yr school and were BARELY passing whereas a number of students from my CC that later went on to the 4 yr school breezed through upper level sciences. And mind you this is a highly touted 4 yr institution on the East Coast that shall remain nameless. Lol. I think it all boils down to a case by case basis.
To be honest, I have taken courses at both community colleges and a respectable university. IMHO, it really depends upon the professor/instructor. Just b/c someone teaches at a community college, it does not mean they will not cover the material in a comprehensive manner or not make the information or tests more rigorous. My chemistry professor, I called him Dr. V, well he was absolutely excellent, and one of the schools he has taught at for years has been a community college.
At universities, you may get an assistant teacher/researcher teaching you for many of the classes—especially if the professor is working on research or some big publication, etc. You can be lost in a sea of 100’s of students, and in my personal opinion, that isn’t always great for optimal learning. But my bias is that I’ve always preferred the Aristotle approach. Small group learning can be so powerful.
In many institutions, however, small isn’t practical, and honestly, schools may try to do many things, but truly they are out to make money too–even non-profits. So a big piece of this IMO is whether or not you are also a strong “self-learner,” b/c there is a lot of information, and it simply cannot be all covered in lectures, labs, or other learning opportunities–or even in small groups for that matter. If I were on an admit committee, I’d want to see how much of a self-starter/self-learner the individual applicant was. Community colleges can help support this or not. It depends upon the individual.
I do think there is a bit of an unfair bias w/ community colleges. Just like various universities, the caliber and intensity of one course to another that one is exposed to can be so very different. Hence the invention the MCAT!
If money and availability of courses is an issue–and sometimes it is at a university–or a community college for that matter, I’d think hedging your bets by taking courses at a university along with community college may balance it out. But the MCAT is supposed to be the true equalizer. When it comes to individual institutions, who can say for sure? Unfortunately there are imbalanced biases in this world.
This is kind of interesting, especially now, b/c we are confronted with this current economic crisis. Part of the relief students are seeking is to put their university status on hold and take as many courses at community colleges as possible. Money is tight for many people. The community colleges in my region are stuffed. And in general, schools are notorious for constantly upping their tuition rates-very hard to get a break on that, and the unreasonable costs of many books–even used ones–is just too much for people. Bottom line is this. People are forced to economize in any way possible.
I don’t sit on an ms admissions committee. To me, however, it seems reasonable to note that if a student can demonstrate that she/he can learn the work well, it shouldn’t matter if he/she took courses at a community college or a university. Most of the educators at community colleges have no less than masters and more and more are Phd’s and must show proof of being published. There has been a push for this for decades.
Depending on who is doing the teaching at your university and when, again, you may not always be taught by a someone with post-graduate-level and plus credentials.
I will also add this to my personal perspective: Great teachers are more born than taught. Of course they must be educated. It’s just that education alone doesn’t necessarily make for a great teacher. Some people are more innately talented to it than others, period. I think we’ve all gained this understanding, even going back to elementary school.
Mostly what I’ve learned, I’ve learned on my own. I am a social learner, but I’m more of a solitary learner when it comes to teaching myself something of a more in-depth nature–or something more massive in scale–or where nuances are important. I teach at a community college, and I enjoy it. It’s a give and take thing for me, and it’s just something that I feel naturally good about most of the time. So there is a social element to learning, definitely. (And what some people may not know is that nurses often have to be teachers to their patients and families. IMO, to be good at it, you must be comfortable interacting with others constantly–and listening and being a good communicator is key. In general, nursing is not something you generally do in isolation. So nurses must communicate well with others–well, smile, at least ideally they should.)
I’ve also had to learn from certain instructors/professors/te achers that I may not be able to depend on them to give me what I need or want to learn. I will take whatever they will give me. And that has been true regarding the colleageal relationships that I’ve valued most, where there is openness to teaching/learning. I’ve been fortunate to work with physicians and many good residents and fellows that actually love to teach and discuss and explore things. So this is so true for physicians as well. They should have strong communication and teaching abilities in my view. Yes, even surgeons. smile I’ve been fortunate and have learned from very busy surgeons–especially some great surgical fellows. I’m not one of thoses nurses that has a general loathing of surgeons; b/c I’ve witnessed the great demands that are placed on them. When they get short, I generally understand–and they usually come back and try to make up for it. And when they have time, they are open to discussion and teaching. They certainly have to enlighten patients and families. I’ve never seen a pediatric CT surgeon not draw and also procure pictures–they must draw individual pictures for these kids, since many times, their cardiac anomalies are not like anything you would see in a basically normal heart. So they have to demonstrate what is going on and why. And sometimes it’s quite complicated. If you can’t learn something well for yourself, how can you related it to others–nurses, other residents, patients, family members?
I think the truth is that one has to learn a lot on his/her own, while also giving and benenfiting from interaction with others. When it comes to massive amounts of information, though, to me there is a huge solitary learning component that the student must accept and decide to be good at and for which he/she is willing to take responsibility. So then, if this is so, my rationale again is why get overly fixated on community college pre-med science courses versus university college pre-med science courses? Now if you are gaining a major in biology or biochemistry, there will definitely be other courses that you must take and advance through on a university level. That’s b/c you are moving through an academic degree, which will be mostly in research, bio-engineereing, or teaching. And that’s great. Unless one is choosing a MD/Phd program for one’s future, why should it matter?
Back to the imbalanced perspectives and biases in this world. . . well, it is tough to totally avoid them. Look at the whole DO versus MD thing. At the end of the day, I’ve always agreed with the notion that “It’s not the suit but the person in the suit.” (I can’t remember from whence that quote came–some movie I think.) But the whole quote is something like this:
‘It’s not the suit but the person in the suit, and the person in this suit can break your face.’ LOL
I’m thinking it came from a Rocky movie. ??? IDK??? LOL
While the last part of the quote is kind of harsh (I’m from the NE, so, LOL, perhaps not so much in my sub-culture.), it makes its point. In this case I apply it as follows: Can we demonstrate that we can kick butt when it comes to this level of academic intensity?
As for me and even considering my great chemistry professor from years past, well, A in the courses or not, it’s been so long, the chem. and sciences I will take again. I am hoping that my current school will accept me into their post-bacc pre-med program, even though I may take some sciences and calc elsewhere and have had sciences in the past.
The thing is many of the pbpm programs don’t want you to have a lot of sciences outside of their program. I think there are advantages to being in a pbpm program. OTOH, if all such programs in the area make it a huge pain for me b/c of previously taking some sciences, or if they make me wait too long, I will be forced to blow them off and take whatever I can, wherever I can, and then I will kick butt in those courses and hopefully on the MCAT.
I’m not going to overly stress myself about it. It just seems counterproductive to me. Truth is that this country is facing a great need for primary-care physicians. I’m not saying ‘die’ either way–unless, well, I actually do kick the bucket. LOL
Some medical schools want prospective premeds to take their courses at the school that provides the most rigor, and so don’t like community college courses. But other medical schools don’t mind.
Case in point: Years ago I volunteered with a student doing her post-bacc courses at a community college. She then went on to get a 42 on the MCAT (the highest score for anyone who took the MCAT that year), went to UCSF for both her medical school and her residency, and is now a professor of medicine at UCSF.
Yes, her high MCAT score probably helped her and so did her volunteer work, but I’m sure her classes weren’t discounted either.
Some think that this is a huge deal. I agree that it depends on the school.
If a PhD with loads of experience and research is teaching me science at a cc versus someone like a teacher’s assistant with less credentials and experience at a university, it is nothing short of highly argumentative. The proof is in the comprehensive and through nature of what is being taught and what is being ingested mentally by the student.
Different universities look differently on the caliber of sciences taught from one to the other. At least here on the east coast northern, many of CC instruct equally well and throughly on the basic natural sciences.
But differences in how education is confered is exactly why there is an MCAT exam.
It’s kind of unfair to sweep all cc under the rug in light of what can really go on in many universities and the individual commitment, knowledge, and aptitude of the professor.
To me it’s just a bias that is existing, and in order to limit having the bias work against you, some advisers direct students to not taking core sciences at a cc. Regardless, upper level courses will still need to be taken at a university, so. . .
Unfair bias drives me nuts. . .but I see the practical side of following it–though I would hardly agree necessarily.
I’m also new here, and I’m really happy to find a forum for truly non-traditional students. I attended a fairly prestigious school as an Engineering major straight out of high school, but had to drop out due to difficult financial, family, and personal reasons. I began working as in the medical field, and after becoming involved in medical missions to South America, I decided that I wanted to pursue medicine.
Since I was working as a surgical technologist and supporting myself, even state school was too expensive for me to consider. Even upon receiving my transcripts, my local community college would not allow me to register for General Chemistry I (the highest level they offered) because I had not taken college-level algebra. Mind you, I had successfully completed Calculus II. So I went to the chairperson of the Chemistry department.
He immediately registered me in the Honors program, and assured me that I had come to the right place. He was once a tenured professor at Georgetown (where he had completed his post-doctoral work), and he still taught Organic Chemistry there every summer. He had chosen a career at a community college because the students there inspired him; he recognizes that older and nontraditional students are more interested in really learning than than they are in simply beating the curve.
I took most of my pre-med requirements at that school. I did research there that I presented at national conferences, and he appointed me to teach tutoring workshops and even a NY state regents review course. Upon graduating, I transferred to a state school, and I will be graduating this year and applying to medical schools in June.
I have done private tutoring for students from schools like Columbia University and NYU, as well as various city and state university colleges, and I believe that I learned both General and Organic Chemistry at a level that is hard for most students to achieve in large lecture halls. I have succeeded with A’s in physical chemistry, biochemistry, and other upper-level courses. I know I need to achieve an excellent score on the MCATs to prove that my community college courses prepared me as adequately as a four-year school, but I believe that I actually learned more at the community college than I have from the upper-level courses in which I merely came out on top of the curve.
Still, my greatest fear is that my community college courses will not be taken seriously. In all honesty, I don’t believe my biology classes were taught with the same rigor as those at the state school, but I have taken enough upper-level biology courses to prove to myself that I have an excellent foundation in the biological sciences.
Incidentally, I have kept in touch with the professor (and chair) at the community college. Though he changes the exams each year, he gives the same exams to all his students, including those at Georgetown. He showed me (without names) the grades on our Organic Chemistry II final exam, and the grades from the students at Georgetown that summer. Our class average was nearly four points above theirs. His daughter graduated from an Ivy league college and is currently attending and Ivy League medical school, and he is confident that I (and the top students in my class, who are also nontraditional) are capable of achieving the same level of success as anyone in a premiere medical school.
That said, as with any school, each community college has its strengths and weaknesses. The physicians I worked with actually recommended the school I chose to attend, and that chemistry department happens to have an excellent reputation. Make sure you choose a school that is reputed to be strong in the sciences.
I only wish there was some way to find out which admissions committees (particularly in NY) are open-minded to community college coursework, and which ones all but discount it.
- ehughes Said:
I'm also new here, and I'm really happy to find a forum for truly non-traditional students. I attended a fairly prestigious school as an Engineering major straight out of high school, but had to drop out due to difficult financial, family, and personal reasons. I began working as in the medical field, and after becoming involved in medical missions to South America, I decided that I wanted to pursue medicine.
Since I was working as a surgical technologist and supporting myself, even state school was too expensive for me to consider. Even upon receiving my transcripts, my local community college would not allow me to register for General Chemistry I (the highest level they offered) because I had not taken college-level algebra. Mind you, I had successfully completed Calculus II. So I went to the chairperson of the Chemistry department.
He immediately registered me in the Honors program, and assured me that I had come to the right place. He was once a tenured professor at Georgetown (where he had completed his post-doctoral work), and he still taught Organic Chemistry there every summer. He had chosen a career at a community college because the students there inspired him; he recognizes that older and nontraditional students are more interested in really learning than than they are in simply beating the curve.
I took most of my pre-med requirements at that school. I did research there that I presented at national conferences, and he appointed me to teach tutoring workshops and even a NY state regents review course. Upon graduating, I transferred to a state school, and I will be graduating this year and applying to medical schools in June.
I have done private tutoring for students from schools like Columbia University and NYU, as well as various city and state university colleges, and I believe that I learned both General and Organic Chemistry at a level that is hard for most students to achieve in large lecture halls. I have succeeded with A's in physical chemistry, biochemistry, and other upper-level courses. I know I need to achieve an excellent score on the MCATs to prove that my community college courses prepared me as adequately as a four-year school, but I believe that I actually learned more at the community college than I have from the upper-level courses in which I merely came out on top of the curve.
Still, my greatest fear is that my community college courses will not be taken seriously. In all honesty, I don't believe my biology classes were taught with the same rigor as those at the state school, but I have taken enough upper-level biology courses to prove to myself that I have an excellent foundation in the biological sciences.
Incidentally, I have kept in touch with the professor (and chair) at the community college. Though he changes the exams each year, he gives the same exams to all his students, including those at Georgetown. He showed me (without names) the grades on our Organic Chemistry II final exam, and the grades from the students at Georgetown that summer. Our class average was nearly four points above theirs. His daughter graduated from an Ivy league college and is currently attending and Ivy League medical school, and he is confident that I (and the top students in my class, who are also nontraditional) are capable of achieving the same level of success as anyone in a premiere medical school.
That said, as with any school, each community college has its strengths and weaknesses. The physicians I worked with actually recommended the school I chose to attend, and that chemistry department happens to have an excellent reputation. Make sure you choose a school that is reputed to be strong in the sciences.
I only wish there was some way to find out which admissions committees (particularly in NY) are open-minded to community college coursework, and which ones all but discount it.
Since I was working as a surgical technologist and supporting myself, even state school was too expensive for me to consider. Even upon receiving my transcripts, my local community college would not allow me to register for General Chemistry I (the highest level they offered) because I had not taken college-level algebra. Mind you, I had successfully completed Calculus II. So I went to the chairperson of the Chemistry department.
He immediately registered me in the Honors program, and assured me that I had come to the right place. He was once a tenured professor at Georgetown (where he had completed his post-doctoral work), and he still taught Organic Chemistry there every summer. He had chosen a career at a community college because the students there inspired him; he recognizes that older and nontraditional students are more interested in really learning than than they are in simply beating the curve.
I took most of my pre-med requirements at that school. I did research there that I presented at national conferences, and he appointed me to teach tutoring workshops and even a NY state regents review course. Upon graduating, I transferred to a state school, and I will be graduating this year and applying to medical schools in June.
I have done private tutoring for students from schools like Columbia University and NYU, as well as various city and state university colleges, and I believe that I learned both General and Organic Chemistry at a level that is hard for most students to achieve in large lecture halls. I have succeeded with A's in physical chemistry, biochemistry, and other upper-level courses. I know I need to achieve an excellent score on the MCATs to prove that my community college courses prepared me as adequately as a four-year school, but I believe that I actually learned more at the community college than I have from the upper-level courses in which I merely came out on top of the curve.
Still, my greatest fear is that my community college courses will not be taken seriously. In all honesty, I don't believe my biology classes were taught with the same rigor as those at the state school, but I have taken enough upper-level biology courses to prove to myself that I have an excellent foundation in the biological sciences.
Incidentally, I have kept in touch with the professor (and chair) at the community college. Though he changes the exams each year, he gives the same exams to all his students, including those at Georgetown. He showed me (without names) the grades on our Organic Chemistry II final exam, and the grades from the students at Georgetown that summer. Our class average was nearly four points above theirs. His daughter graduated from an Ivy league college and is currently attending and Ivy League medical school, and he is confident that I (and the top students in my class, who are also nontraditional) are capable of achieving the same level of success as anyone in a premiere medical school.
That said, as with any school, each community college has its strengths and weaknesses. The physicians I worked with actually recommended the school I chose to attend, and that chemistry department happens to have an excellent reputation. Make sure you choose a school that is reputed to be strong in the sciences.
I only wish there was some way to find out which admissions committees (particularly in NY) are open-minded to community college coursework, and which ones all but discount it.
Honest I think you will be fine. Most of the CCs here in the NE need to be on top of things with certain programs and courses. There's just too much overflow and crossover with too many universities around here. CC schools couldn't make any money in this particular region if they didn't try to keep up with certain things--course and technology wise. They can't afford to be like say East Gippip CC, far removed from universities in No Man's Land. Some things from your experience seem a bit similar to some of mine.
Physical chem. . .Wow. . .tough course. I think you are more than OK, especially if you are looking to NE and NY region.
I will share this, although it may seem somewhat irrelevant to say pre-med/m.s:
The year I graduated from nursing school, our school's prof. nurse board results were markedly higher than those from a very wonderful Ivy League university in the same region. Have to say again, so often it really is 'about the PEOPLE in the suits more than the suits.'
Yep, there are pluses and minuses, strengths and weakeness to everything.
But you have taken upper level course work and have done quite well.
Given what you've shared, I'd be surprised if you didn't do well on the MCAT; although I am sure you are planning an intensive review.
Yes, isn't this a great site? I snooped around at SDN. There's more a sense of encouragement and less of a spirit of exclusion and competition here at this site--or perhpas I got that sense of things simply b/c of some of the threads I went to there--not to be unfair to them at all.
It just seems like more of a "can do" sense of things for NTs here.
Best regards to you.
I had similar experiences with some of my CC classes. My chemistry classes for example had a stellar professor, and we took the same American Chemical Society exam for the final as most any general chemistry class does. I fail to see how it should be regarded negatively. Then again, universities are in business to make money (rather than teach), and anything that takes money from them is going to be regarded negatively.
So would you think that you needed to re-take those exact same classes at a university, or just take different classes to show that you are capable of the school work. I would think for example, taking a higher level class, maybe physics 3, or maybe a statistical class would give you more of a knowledge base than slaving through the same physics 1 class again. Then again, it would be a good review for the MCAT, but I like to learn new things…
I had an OU Pre-Med advisor tell me today to "NOT TAKE COURSES AT A CC. Who knows, everyone has an opinion on what is acceptable.
Im guessing that all schools vary when it comes to where the courses were completed. But if your in my situation where you live out in BFE, and have nothing but a CC, or some private college that charges $590 PER CREDIT HOUR. It’s a difficult bind to be in if you dont have choices for school or you cant afford the HIGH dollar costs.