I am 46 years old and thinking about med school. It’s something I’ve thought about for about 10-15 years now. My three kids are all teenagers now and my wife and I are in a season of life where I could return to school. I just figured I was too old to even consider med school when I stumbled across this website. Actually I was researching the possibility of becoming a physician assistant when this site popped up in a search.
Here’s the deal. My undergraduate GPA is 3.68 with a 3.4 GPA in science/math classes. I graduated from college in 1994. Prior to college I spent almost 6 years in the United States Air Force. I have a master of divinity degree (M.Div.) from a fully accredited graduate theological school (3.41 GPA). I was a pastor for about 10 years. My time as a pastor gave me lots of experience in hospitals dealing with ill and dying people. I also took 10 courses at a graduate business school with a 3.92 GPA.
My medical experience, besides being in hospitals as a pastor, is 1 year as an emergency medical technician on a college campus. I also was a lifeguard for 3 years and actually had the privilege of saving 4 lives over that time period. More than just distressed swimmers, they would have drowned if I didn’t get to them in time.
There are three major universities within an hour of my house that I could take my undergraduate pre-med courses. I prefer just to take the courses rather than pursue another undergraduate degree. I could start taking coures during summer 2012. I need to get my life organized for such an endeavor.
My questions: Over the next year, what should I be doing to confirm a calling to practice medicine? I have an interest in both psychiatry and emergency medicine. I can’t stand T.V. medical shows and never watch them. The ER interest arises out of the adrenaline rush I get when working under pressure. I just like being in intense situations.
What should I be doing to prepare my wife and kids for this undertaking?
What volunteer work (specifics please) do you all think would best prepare me for medical school?
What books, audio and video resources, and websites do you all recommend that would help me get to a firm commitment to do this?
For those of you who have been out of school for a while, what were the biggest challenges you faced in returning to school? I could actually end up taking some clases with one of my daughters. That would be an interesting experience.
Finally, a practical financial question. What should my borrowing limit be for a pre-med program and med school? My fear is that I will over-borrow. If you have done an ROI analysis with regard to becoming a doctor later in life, I’d like to hear your thinking.
Thanks. I am really looking forward to learning a lot from people at this site.
Chris
Hi Chris, and welcome to OPM! I have found this site to be an incredible resource; I hope you find it to be the same. In terms of your questions, I will do my best to answer them to the best of my ability. So here goes …
- CoachChris Said:
I would recommend shadowing physicians (of different specialties, if possible) and volunteering. In other words, get as much medically-related experience as you can to see whether that environment and life is what you really want.
- CoachChris Said:
I think it is important to let them know that this is something that has been on your heart and mind for a long time, this is not just a whim, and that this is your dream. But it will require sacrifices on their part, and so you all really need to be in it together. You are going to be extremely occupied with school, studying constantly, and probably less available than in the past, at least for some time. There will also be financial sacrifices. I think it is key to NOT sugar coat these things, because you will really need your family's support as you travel down this road.
- CoachChris Said:
What you really want is direct patient contact. This could mean working in a hospital reading to patients or working in a local clinic interacting with patients in some capacity (I'm a Spanish medical translator at a free clinic in my area). What I would recommend is contacting area hospitals and free clinics and finding out what opportunities they have available and choosing one that appeals to you. One thing that is important on a med school application is dedication and consistency, so you'll want to choose an activity that you can stick with for a while.
- CoachChris Said:
One book I've heard recommended (and a fellow pre-med friend just gave me a copy of this) is Body of Work. It's by a med student who was formerly a writer (so it's supposed to be beautifully written), and is about gross anatomy in med school, as well as early encounters with patients, etc. I can't wait to read it, especially since I'm taking anatomy in my post-bac program next semester!
- CoachChris Said:
One of my biggest challenges was my frustration with some of the regular undergrad students (and a couple of the post-bacs as well, I'm sorry to say) in that they didn't seem to be taking the courses seriously. They would goof off, talk when the professor was talking, not engage in discussions, etc. So I had to just detach from that and interact with the students who were taking things seriously.
I also found the whole school-life balance thing a bit difficult. I am so driven to do well, because I am serious and dedicated, and so I was tempted to spend just about every waking moment studying. But I know that's not healthy (just as not studying isn't good). So it took me a while to find a groove with that.
- CoachChris Said:
I'm a good bit younger than you (I'm 29), so my financial situation is much different. I'm also in the process of getting divorced, so will be single and completely living off student loans. So I will leave this question to other OPMers.
Well, I know that was a bit long, but I hope it was helpful. Best wishes to you, and I hope you will continue to post on OPM and keep us informed of your journey!
Welcome CoachChris!
Your background sounds very interesting, with a clear commitment to service–excellent not only for getting into med school but also for understanding your suitability for medicine.
Where are you located? I ask because some OPMers may be from your area and able to suggest specific programs or etc.
I graduated in 1994 as well (without the time in the military), and started a post-bacc program in 2010. I have no partner or kids so won’t be able to comment on that other than what my fellow post-baccers have said.
Here are a few thoughts, which I hope will be helpful.
Confirming a calling
For me, volunteering in a hospital or clinic is probably the most important thing you can do to truly confirm your interest. You want as much patient contact as possible and to see how dragging yourself in when you are tired feels and how it feels when you leave. You also want to gauge how “grossed out” you get by the human body. I volunteer in Geriatrics, and I think it is a great, great education. We have every type of disease as well as the issues of aging, problems with hygiene, psych issues, etc. Of course, if you are a former EMT and can get re-licensed easily, then that would be fantastic.
Preparing family
You should let your kids and wife know that you will be away a lot. It’s good your kids are teenagers and probably have full lives of their own. The post-baccers I know with families spend much of their time at school because it is very distracting being at home (family is much more fun that physics, they tell me).
I would work out the chores and meals as well—during midterms and finals, things like laundry and meals become haphazard. You might want to choose specific times for family dinners etc. At least where I am, many classes are at night and can be disruptive.
Volunteer work with specifics
See above—but also: If you can be an EMT, that’s great and enough. If you volunteer elsewhere, try a hospital or well-run clinic. Look for those volunteer opptys that say you help pts with transferring, eating, activities of daily living, etc.–don’t be a guide or someone who plays with kids in the playroom, you won’t have the chance to work with nurses and get your hands dirty. An ER would be a good place if you have a strong personality; a shy person can get overlooked. Get to know the nurses and other staff and let them know (a) you are interested in med school and (b) you will help with anything. As they come to trust you, they will give you more information, answer your questions, let you watch or help with more complex procedures.
Books and resources
Personally, I have not read any books by doctors about what it’s like being a doctor but I know that others have found them very helpful. Books that have inspired and motivated me are more about medicine or patients—for example Sherwin Nuland’s How We Die or that book about the doctor who had a stroke. Collins’ Language of Life is a bit commercial but still interesting.
I also talked with my doctor friends a lot about what it’s like being a doctor. They will probably have experiences in different settings and can tell you the pros and cons. Also ask them what they think of you as a doctor, ignoring your age. I have found that many traditional-path doctors, while glad they are themselves doctors, think it is insane for anyone our age to be pursuing this.
Once you start classes, there are a ton of resources online that you should definitely use to help get the grades you want in school. Write again when you do.
Biggest challenges
The post-bacc time is the hardest, I think, since it is a time of “weeding out†rather than support (i.e., med schools want you to succeed once you get in). It is hard on relationships. You will feel alone. Make friends with your classmates (including your daughter :-D) and have a study group for commiseration as well as studying.
For myself, I have loved this time but have found the focus on GPAs and application process depressing, so I have found that this time produces a lot of anxiety.
Finances
For the pre-med program—It’s tough to answer without knowing your financial situation. I think it is important to make your pre-med work successful, not cheap. That said, I looked at a prestigious university program versus the city college system here, and at 10 times the cost the prestigious choice made no sense. Pick an affordable, state/public university (no community colleges if you can help it), work as little as possible, and don’t waste your energy on trying to save $10 on a textbook. Just my recommendations—this differs for everyone.
ROI analyses are tough for this kind of decision, esp. since we can’t be sure what specialty we’re going into. It is only important in the macro sense—in that, if the ROI were zero or negative (as it well could be), would you still do it? The answer for me was definitely Yes. That is what your work to confirm your desire should help you answer.
Hope this helps and best wishes.
mesclun
Lorien,
Thanks for the advice. It is helpful.
I am sorry you are experiencing the break-up of a marriage relationship. That is painful and always brings complications to life.
I can picture myself getting frustrated with students who don’t take academics seriously as well. I’ll have to prepare myself for that.
I love to learn, which is one of my biggest assets. I don’t just want to get an “A” in a class, I want to look through a microscope and see something awesome. I want to understand some physical process I’ve never understood before.
A weakness is that I don’t deal well with distractions. I tend not to be very social when I’m in a learning environment because I am not good at dividing my attention between the class and the social interactions that go on in the class. I actually get quite annoyed with class disruptions.
Your post also reminded me of past conflict I had with my wife while in grad school. I absolutely love to study. I can get so focused on my studies that I “forget” things like sleeping, meetings, family outings, etc. I hope I can be more mature this time around and allow for my studies to be interrupted from time to time.
My twin daughters are both academically gifted and will start taking college classes while still in high school. One wants to become a therapist and the other an engineer. The one who wants to become an engineer will likely be taking calculus at the same time I am taking it. I hope so, she is a math genius and I’ll need all the help I can get.
Thanks again for the advice. I will think through the things you wrote more.
Chris
Mesclun,
Thanks for your insights. They are quite helpful.
Working out a new chore schedule will be quite a challenge now that you’ve brought it up. Our family is always on the go and rarely home at the same time right now. The kids will have to step it up when it comes to helping around the house though if I am going to do this.
Injury and illness don’t bother me. When I was a minister I would often sit with people who were dying from illness or trauma. For some reason I am able to look pass the mess and see the person.
One of the reasons why I want to become a doctor is that I have gotten frustated by my lack of ability to meet physical needs of people as well as their emotional/spiritual needs. I take a wholistic view of humanity. I don’t think we can just separate the physical and non-physical dimensions of our being and treat one without treating the other.
Chris
- CoachChris Said:
For some reason I am able to look pass the mess and see the person.
You would be amazed how many people, even those working in health care full time, lack this crucial skill. Excelling at the technical skills is essential, but remembering and seeing the PERSON you're interacting with is JUST as essential. We often forget that this is a priviledge, to be admitted so intimately into the lives of people who are often frightened and desperately ill.
This - the benefit we can bring to each individual patient as a person - is (or at least should be) the reason we work so hard towards our goals of becoming physicians.
At least that's what keeps me pushing forward...
Annette
Chris,
My son and I attend a major university together and we have had the opportunity to take classes together.
We have purposefully decided NOT to.
We drive together, eat lunch together, and sometimes can be found in the student union studying near one another (it has been he and I alone for 19 years - in many ways, we grew up together for I was surely not an adult when I had him despite my chronological age saying something different).
The reason for us not taking classes together are many:
- any indication of nepotism is nixed by us being separate, same goes for cheating (not that either of us would do that but to keep things very segregated)
- any ability for him to meet friends with his mom sitting there is awkward at best (goes for meeting young women)
- any ability for him to branch out and find his own wings gets nipped by me being there all the time
- any ability for him to not be embarassed because his classmates find me … eh… hot (yes, I got asked to a frat house party by one of his classmates thinking I was “really not his mom” - and no, I don’t dress like a skank)
Financially, it has been a struggle but there has been only me… no partner around to help me.
Mentally, it’s been a dream. I LOVE school and miss it when I’m not there… Like someone else said, the hardest part of classes is the RUDE youngsters who are ignorant of those around them: packing up backpacks with 5 mins left in lecture, or talking, or texting, or giggling, or … I hate that. Drives me nuts!
Oh, and I’m 46.
Annette,
I really appreciate your insight and take your words as a warning. Once the excitement of being a new practioner wears off I’d have to really be on guard with my thoughts and attitudes toward patients.
I’ve always viewed medicine as an applied science. What makes many scientists good is their ability to dispationately analyze and solve problems. The weak side of this is often a weakness in interpersonal skills. I have an old friend who is an administrator at an Ivy League medical school. He once told me that the weakest students often make the best family practice docs and the strongest students the best specialists and researchers but not so good internists and family practice docs. Med students who are weaker academically tend to be stronger in interpersonal skills. From my experience interacting with med students over the years I’d have to agree to an extent with that generalization.
I was exploring the difference between osteopathic and allopathic medicine a little today and realized I’m philosophically more in line with an osteopathic approach to medicine.
Chris
Adoc2be,
I can’t imagine doing what you are doing without a life partner to help share the load. I appreciate the courage and determination evident in what you are doing.
Thanks for your wisdom regarding taking the same college classes as my girls will. I’m thinking I’m not going to be asked to any sorority parties, unless some girl lost a bet with her friends. Seriously, I do understand the other concerns. I think they are valid and you have some real wisdom that I will carefully consider.
I did my undergrad between the ages of 24-29. I was a military veteran who was using the G.I. Bill to attend college. I paid the rest of my way by working at least 40 hours a week with as many as 3 jobs at once. I think that caused me to take my education more seriously than students who were there because mom and dad paid most of the bills.
I’ve always been very intentional about my education. I know I will have difficulty with students who are a distraction. This seems to be a common issue for non-trad pre-med students though. It’s nice to know I’m not alone in regard to that issue.
Chris
- CoachChris Said:
I've been a Scientist for a little over 10 years and I vehemently disagree with this statement, LOL!!!
- In reply to:
I wouldn't put that in your personal statement....
- CoachChris Said:
I've always viewed medicine as an applied science. What makes many scientists good is their ability to dispationately analyze and solve problems. The weak side of this is often a weakness in interpersonal skills... Med students who are weaker academically tend to be stronger in interpersonal skills.
Not to beat a dead horse, but...
While the geeky and socially awkward scientist may have been the rule before my time it is not so now. You cannot go into research or medicine without being both an excellent communicator and having the capability to think critically/analyze problems on the fly.
If you continue to think this way you will be in for a rude awakening when you realize you neglected to build up your existing skill-sets in these arenas, and a bunch of kids who excel at it get into school instead of you. Sure, they may seem to lack social graces with you - they have no reason to *try* around you, and behave differently in an informal environment than a professional one.
I am really not trying to be mean or harsh - I made a huge mistake my 2nd year at university, thinking I had soft skills all my pre-med "peers" lacked - and believing I didn't need to work on them to do better than them. In sophomore year, when curves were made to only allow a certain number of As per class, those kids swept the floor with me in group projects and presentations - I expected to have no competition and was resting on my business speaking/presentation experience.
So, long story shortened - don't make assumptions like this even if a friend backs them up. It can kick your butt later. ;)