Well, so far I've had a fairly decent return to the academic world, finishing my first year back with a 4.0…this summer, I've signed up for a Physics course in summer school. I took my first test today, and didn't do as well as I had hoped. I probably got a low B, or a high C. Physics isn't my strong point, and I hadn't expected to do particularly well on it, and if I can escape with a pair of C's, I'll be more than happy.
The problem is the grading system, and the way the tests are administered. The class is set up so that there are 5 tests, each worth 20 points, with only 10 questions. The questions are not weighted equally. There is no credit for homework, class participation, or anything else. The lab is pass/fail, so it can count against you but not help you.
Theoretically, you could complete the course answering 70% of the questions on each test correctly and still get an F if you miss the wrong three. You could also complete the course answering 80% of the questions on the first four tests correctly - and enter the last test with a C-…only to watch that C- turn into a D if you missed the wrong three on test #5.
Is it worth dropping the course and looking for one where the margins between letter grades aren't quite so razor thin, and the tests are more balanced?
Thoughts?
While the grading does sound tight, you need to decide, of course.
Is physics w/ lab available at any other college in your area or with any other professor (who might grade differently)? If your current physics course is the only one around then you're stuck. If not, you could withdraw now, and pick up physics ASAP at another campus or with a different prof. (Ask a lot of questions so that you're not just jumping to a grass-seems-greener-over-there situation when the grass might turn out to be the same).
If there's no other physics around, then you need to just do it. Go for tutoring, find a study buddy, go to office hours with your questions, work every problem, read the text, don't miss a class, etc. Become a physics fanatic if only for the year. If there's any other things in your way (e.g. life style, too many other courses, etc.) remedy what you can as soon as possible.
I dropped physics after the first test. A lot of other people did too. They had F's; I had a B. Why? I had gone to office hours with specific questions and the prof would not answer them. Classes were at 8 am and some of his lecture was said into his coffee cup so no one had good notes. There were critical mistakes in his powerpoint lectures. That was his stuff…only 4 out of the original 17 students took the final. In my life, my brother had just been diagnosed with lymphoma and my youngest son was out of school for 2 weeks with pneumonia. It didn't seem like the right time to devote to physics and, truth told, something about physics scared me. I continued with my other courses for the year and did well.
Next year, new prof. Still 8 am physics, but extremely different for lectures and labs. A on the first test. Found another non-trad for a study buddy. We worked every problem and reworked every problem before each test. We went over concepts, we went to office hours every week. We had fun with it, got to know the prof (and he wrote great LOR's for each of us) and earned A's for both lectures and labs.
What would dropping do to your applications? Would that put off your application for a year?
If you decide to drop, there are things you can do to make the next time better. Talk to the prof well in advance and let him/her know your concerns. Brush up on math if you need to. Read non-text physics books: Thinking Physics and anything by Richard Feyman (sp?). Watch Standard Deviant's Physics tapes. Oman and Oman have a book called How to Solve Physics Problems that's pretty good.
Let us know what you decide! Good luck with this…
| QUOTE (Mary Bois Byrne @ Jun 7 2003, 09:01 AM) |
| While the grading does sound tight, you need to decide, of course. Is physics w/ lab available at any other college in your area or with any other professor (who might grade differently)? If your current physics course is the only one around then you're stuck. If not, you could withdraw now, and pick up physics ASAP at another campus or with a different prof. (Ask a lot of questions so that you're not just jumping to a grass-seems-greener-over-there situation when the grass might turn out to be the same). If there's no other physics around, then you need to just do it. Go for tutoring, find a study buddy, go to office hours with your questions, work every problem, read the text, don't miss a class, etc. Become a physics fanatic if only for the year. If there's any other things in your way (e.g. life style, too many other courses, etc.) remedy what you can as soon as possible. I dropped physics after the first test. A lot of other people did too. They had F's; I had a B. Why? I had gone to office hours with specific questions and the prof would not answer them. Classes were at 8 am and some of his lecture was said into his coffee cup so no one had good notes. There were critical mistakes in his powerpoint lectures. That was his stuff...only 4 out of the original 17 students took the final. In my life, my brother had just been diagnosed with lymphoma and my youngest son was out of school for 2 weeks with pneumonia. It didn't seem like the right time to devote to physics and, truth told, something about physics scared me. I continued with my other courses for the year and did well. Next year, new prof. Still 8 am physics, but extremely different for lectures and labs. A on the first test. Found another non-trad for a study buddy. We worked every problem and reworked every problem before each test. We went over concepts, we went to office hours every week. We had fun with it, got to know the prof (and he wrote great LOR's for each of us) and earned A's for both lectures and labs. What would dropping do to your applications? Would that put off your application for a year? If you decide to drop, there are things you can do to make the next time better. Talk to the prof well in advance and let him/her know your concerns. Brush up on math if you need to. Read non-text physics books: Thinking Physics and anything by Richard Feyman (sp?). Watch Standard Deviant's Physics tapes. Oman and Oman have a book called How to Solve Physics Problems that's pretty good. Let us know what you decide! Good luck with this... |
Mary,
Thanks for your advice. There are many colleges and professors around here that offer the course. I had planned to enter medical school in the fall of 2005, and so while putting the course off won't delay my application, it will mean that I face the MCAT in April without Physics.
I'm going to wait and see how I did for sure on Monday and make my decision. I think I'm probably going to drop and live to fight another day.
Do not attempt the MCAT w/p physics that is setting yourself up for failure period. The physical sciences portion of the MCAT will test physics and inorganic chemistry.
| QUOTE (efex101 @ Jun 7 2003, 01:26 PM) |
| Do not attempt the MCAT w/p physics that is setting yourself up for failure period. The physical sciences portion of the MCAT will test physics and inorganic chemistry. |
She's right!
Taking the MCAT without having the year of physics is like trying to drive a car without any driver's ed
! Extremely not recommended. On the PS section of the MCAT there's both conceptual problems and problems involving mathematical calculations...so you must know the relationships and the equations. Do physics, then MCAT...and take the MCAT just once.
Good luck with this!
| QUOTE (Mary Bois Byrne @ Jun 7 2003, 11:19 PM) | ||
She's right! Taking the MCAT without having the year of physics is like trying to drive a car without any driver's ed ! Extremely not recommended. On the PS section of the MCAT there's both conceptual problems and problems involving mathematical calculations...so you must know the relationships and the equations. Do physics, then MCAT...and take the MCAT just once. Good luck with this! |
On more potential strategy...
...to convert the class to P/F and take the class Pass/Fail (there's a different prof second semester)?
Do medical schools accept P/F courses? Even if an admissions committee was to arbitrarily assign a letter grade of say, a C to a pass, that would be preferrable to the potential alternatives.
I concur with your rationale for dropping, and everyone else’s rationale for not taking the MCAT without physics. But I’d say that you definitely don’t want a C if you can help it. I’d suggest that your comment “Physics isn’t my strong point” is also a barrier–to paraphrase Nat and Mary R, you have to figure out how to own that sucker, whoever you take it from.
Good luck!
joe
How much longer do you have to decide? I ask because my initial introduction to physics was equally discouraging. On my first test, which was OPEN BOOK, I scored under the class average. No question it was the most depressing day I had in my pre-med "career."
But shortly after that, physics “clicked” for me and I started to get it. I did lots and lots and lots of problems and the more I worked through, the more it started to make sense. I like to make the analogy that physics is a foreign language. While I did not dream in physics, I did learn to “think in physics” rather than in English, and that made all the difference.
Now, all this doesn’t help you with the truly nasty grade structure you describe. But I guess I am saying that it IS possible to end up doing well in physics even after a rocky start, so the question for you is weighing the risk… honestly I don’t know what the right choice might be in your situation! Certainly it would be hard to stick with the current class when you’re so discouraged.
You cannot take a prerequisite course pass-fail. This would be a huge red flag to an admissions committee. And I agree with everyone else who says that physics is essential to doing well on the MCAT. Good luck with a tough situation. 
Oh, by the way, congratulations on your successful return to academia. You’re off to a great start, and you definitely CAN do physics, you’ll see.
I took something called lifescience physics (easy physics for premeds) my first time in undergrad and I got C's (my first C's) and didn't understand it at all.
Then later I took calc-based physics and was determined to do well this time. So I did what another writer suggested. I did every problem and any extra ones I could find. I went to every help session and found a good study partner.
Then also for me suddently physics clicked. It is a different way of thinking and you just have keep at it until you learn how to set up problems correctly. I got A's the second time. I'm sure it wouldn't have worked without this obsessive approach to doing problems.
Laramisa
Are you sure that the weighted grading on exams might not work in your favor? If your prof weights the problems that were emphasized during lectures, then you'll know just what you have to focus on. Also, if possible, wait until you get your first exam back before dropping the class. You never know what kind of partial credit your prof is inclined to give, and that's just as important in physics as the overall grading system.
The grading does sound kind of tough, but I don't think that's all that uncommon in physics. In my class, homework counted for 2% of our final grade, and the lab for something like 10%. Each of our unit exams, which counted for the other 88%, had only FOUR problems, with 2-3 lengthy calculations required for each problem. Our entire score depended on calculations and problem solving. So even though we got some credit for labs and homework, I still felt a lot of pressure during exams. I didn't start the semester out particularly well either, but after a couple weeks it started to click and things were fine thereafter. From reading some other posts here, I think that's pretty typical. Physics is just its own world, and no matter when or where you take it, the challenges will be more or less the same.
Anyway, I can see why you're concerned, but make sure you investigate your options completely before you drop. Good luck!
Andrea
| QUOTE (Boeing @ Jun 6 2003, 11:18 PM) |
| Well, so far I've had a fairly decent return to the academic world, finishing my first year back with a 4.0...this summer, I've signed up for a Physics course in summer school. I took my first test today, and didn't do as well as I had hoped. I probably got a low B, or a high C. Physics isn't my strong point, and I hadn't expected to do particularly well on it, and if I can escape with a pair of C's, I'll be more than happy. The problem is the grading system, and the way the tests are administered. The class is set up so that there are 5 tests, each worth 20 points, with only 10 questions. The questions are not weighted equally. There is no credit for homework, class participation, or anything else. The lab is pass/fail, so it can count against you but not help you. Theoretically, you could complete the course answering 70% of the questions on each test correctly and still get an F if you miss the wrong three. You could also complete the course answering 80% of the questions on the first four tests correctly - and enter the last test with a C-...only to watch that C- turn into a D if you missed the wrong three on test #5. Is it worth dropping the course and looking for one where the margins between letter grades aren't quite so razor thin, and the tests are more balanced? Thoughts? |
Thanks for all your input folks. On occasion, I manage to surprise myself.
I went to class today, to my great surprise, found that I had scored a B+ on my exam, missing the "A" range by a single point.
I can do this!
| QUOTE (Boeing @ Jun 8 2003, 04:54 AM) |
| [...to convert the class to P/F and take the class Pass/Fail (there's a different prof second semester)? Do medical schools accept P/F courses? Even if an admissions committee was to arbitrarily assign a letter grade of say, a C to a pass, that would be preferrable to the potential alternatives. |
Med schools do not like to see P/F for required pre-med classes. Many (most?) will not accept a C- as a grade which fulfills the requirement. So, keep your options open, take required classes for a grade, and get a C or better.
Cheers,
Judy
Update -
Somehow or the other - I ended up with an A in the class! 
Of course, that made me crazy enough to take the second semester this summer too. Go figure.
Congrats on completing the class and with a very impressive grade.
Physics is something I never imagined that I would like or understand but a couple of years ago I took a 100 level class which was mostly learning the concepts without the math and problem solving. We had some of that but it wasn't too extensive and I ended up acing the class. The prof was excellent and I feel like when I take my pre med physics class I will be able to do well.
I think my favorite part was learning why huge heavy ships can float on water and the bit where we touched on nuclear physics.
Cathy
I know the question of whether or not to keep on with physics is over for you, but I wanted to post this just in case some innocent bystander is reading these posts, like I have been this morning.
It is not necessarily suicide to take the MCAT before taking physics. While it is certainly preferable to have physics first, I found myself in the situation of either taking the MCAT before taking physics or delaying my med school app for a year. I took a professional prep course (but started halfway through) and discovered that there is a heck of a lot of physics in other subjects as well as in life in general, and a lot of the stuff I already knew. The physics on the MCAT is not so much mathematical as it is intuitive. Against all advice, I took the MCAT in April of 2003 and ended up with a 10 in PSci. While this is lower than my other two sections, I'm happy with it and really glad to be applying to med schools this round.
My take home message: Believe in yourself. Everything is possible. You know yourself deep down inside, and if you are dedicated, you CAN do it!
My Physics story should be encouraging to those that struggle.
Physics I (first try) = dropped before first exam, failed to go to class or do homework, crammed, realized it was too late, had fun in social life, WP.
Physics I (second try) = worked some problems, went to class, bombed first test, WP.
Summer School - knew I had to buckle down, get with the program…took Physics I, II, and another engr class…B’s in both Physics, A in other class. I was determined, never missed class (7:30 AM!), worked like a madman with problems. In the end, it was like ripping a bandaid off…painful but quickly over.
I went on to take about 6 more mechanical engineering classes that built on the Physics foundation and made pretty good grades. For me, it was commitment and doing whatever it took.
YOU CAN DO IT…YOU CAN OVERCOME!
A memorable quote:
“If life knocks you down, don’t just lay there. Roll onto your back. If you can look up, you can get up! You can do it!” 