Should we mention ADD/HD or any other learning disability that we’ve overcome or is that taboo a la depression, suicidal tendencies, hearing the voice of God, felony arrests and convictions. Because if so, I won’t have much to talk about. LOL!
Seriously, should we avoid mentioning ADD?
Do you think it will help you get in to medical school?
If it won’t, then don’t put it in your statement of purpose.
There are a few circumstances where it would help you. However, I wouldn’t necessarily put an explanation of academic problems in that category (although it might be helpful in some circumstances). I would tread carefully on this one; not because it is necessarily a negative, but because you need to be thoughtful about why this is important to discuss.
Another way of thinking about this: if you wouldn’t feel comfortable talking about it an interview with a gruff and intimidating surgeon, then don’t put it in your application.
best regards
Joe
PS. You could also consider how to say it without saying it. The diagnosis itself isn’t necessary to say something like, “The second time around, I learned how to learn, and I worked to overcome my own barriers to learning. This was difficult but it wasn’t long before school seemed like a different world than the first time around.” A wise and sympathetic person will know that this means you have ADD; a not-so-wise, not-so-sympathetic person probably won’t pick up the cue.
That said, if working on your ADD has been a big thing for you–e.g., now you’re in a program where you mentor kids with ADD, etc.–then that is really part of your story, and something worth considering including.
I wouldn’t mention it. Wait until you are accepted and then see if the school offers extra help.
My son has ADD and I know what stigma is attached to that disorder and have seen the way people used to look at him. Luckily he hasn’t had to have medication for 3 years now. He has learned to control it through behavior modification. His ADD and his high IQ have been hard at times to deal with. It was hard to distinguish if he was bored and inattentive due to his high IQ or due to his ADD. Since he started high school the schools have not known of his ADD. We have kept it to ourselves because we know how the middle schools labeled him and then blamed things on his ADD rather than his bordem due to not giving him enough challenge.
I wouldn’t mention it. But that is just my personal opinion.
Thanks for the responses. I wasn’t planning on mentioning ADD as part of any would-be sympathy card. My ADD is completely under control, but it is part of my “history” so to speak. The way I have it used in my essay is a before and after snapshot.
But I’ll definitely tread carefully.
Ash, even as a before-and-after snapshot, I would only mention it if learning to deal with it was the sort of “aha!” moment that propelled you much further along your pre-med path. From personal experience and the experiences of classmates I know that med school administrators really HATE to hear about people who may need any sorts of special services. My Dean of Students almost groaned when I related my situation which did NOT require special services, but could at some point necessitate work by the Dean’s office. What was I expecting for my $38K/year???!!! 
Okay, all mentions of ADD have been stricken from the record. Now, if only I could expunge those felony arrests! LOL!
What’s the verdict on God telling me that if I’m not admitted to UAMS, He’ll destroy all of Arkansas?
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Okay, all mentions of ADD have been stricken from the record. Now, if only I could expunge those felony arrests! LOL!
What’s the verdict on God telling me that if I’m not admitted to UAMS, He’ll destroy all of Arkansas?
I’ll jump in and agree with the wise folks who are reading & posting the forum more often than I am able to.
Now, please, if you begin hearing voices about California shaking apart, let me know ASAP, okay?
In all candor I am disturbed by this thread and the advice being offered when it is obvious that an understanding of the needs of students with disabilities is not present.
It isn’t a matter of whether it will get you into to medical school or not. Nor not mentioning it until after they offer help.They are legally required to give help when a disabled student self indentifies. Some students have to mention disabilties in the PS and interview stages to address how their disability affected their undergrad experience and how lack of accommodations affected academic performance. These are not traits that can be removed like a hat. One of the primary complaints of those with physical disabilities when dealing with the medical profession is ignorance and insensitivity. Such as getting on and off an exam table and questions of modesty etc. A good book is by Disability Rights Advocates, Through the Maze. It is specifically written to help those with physical disabilities deal with the medical profession and insurance.
Before I invest 150K+ in a medical education, I want to make damn sure that I as a 140 IQ, profoundly dyslexic student, I will get accommodations for my disability.
Some things are non-negiotable. For myself, this is a neorologic problem I would give anything to walk away from, but I can’t. This cat and mouse act with getting in, when by law, if they recieve federal funds, they have to accommodate disabled students. Does discrimination happen? You bet and don’t get me started. But I quite frankly I don’t care if a dean is inconvienced or not. I know what I will bring to the medical college I attend. This conversation sounds like, “whatever you do, don’t tell them you’re black (or insert difference here) until you get in.” Practically speaking they will find out eventually and hiding who you are makes the PS advice offered thus far disengenous (tell them who you are). I know you guys mean well, but if a school is going to toss me aside becuase I bring this up, tells me they are discriminatory, ignorant and extremely short sided. Thank you very much I will look elsewhere. Disability is part of the human condition, something I thought we all wanted to go into medicine for. To help our fellow man.
Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. No otherwise qualified person shall be denied access…
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In all candor I am disturbed by this thread and the advice being offered when it is obvious that an understanding of the needs of students with disabilities is not present.
It isn’t a matter of whether it will get you into to medical school or not. Nor not mentioning it until after they offer help.They are legally required to give help when a disabled student self indentifies. Some students have to mention disabilties in the PS and interview stages to address how their disability affected their undergrad experience and how lack of accommodations affected academic performance. These are not traits that can be removed like a hat. One of the primary complaints of those with physical disabilities when dealing with the medical profession is ignorance and insensitivity. Such as getting on and off an exam table and questions of modesty etc. A good book is by Disability Rights Advocates, Through the Maze. It is specifically written to help those with physical disabilities deal with the medical profession and insurance.
Before I invest 150K+ in a medical education, I want to make damn sure that I as a 140 IQ, profoundly dyslexic student, I will get accommodations for my disability.
Hi there,
I hate say this but no medical school HAS to admit you IQ of 140 or not. Once admitted, they do have to accomodate you but practically, they can take their time or put you through your own private “he-l” in providing your accomodations.
I have seen too many friends have huge problems dealing with a learning disability in medical school. The whole situation becomes adversarial. What looks good on paper turns out to be a real “bit-h” in practical enforcement. I watched one student burn $150,000 in tuition money before she was failed out of a US school. She was unable to get admitted to any other school in this country so she attempted to go out of the country only to find that she couldn’t get funds. Now she is $150,000 in debt with an attorney who is trying to get her re-admitted to the school she failed out of. She has also burned up four years of her life too.
In a perfect world, medical schools would welcome students that show promise of being good physicians but that is not always the case. Many medical schools do not want to take on students with significant learning disabilities. (Not pretty but realistic) Can you force them to take you? Probably not.
In the end, it is better not to put anything that may be perceived in a negative light, on your application. If you have been a successful premedical student, your grades will speak for themselves and your ADD should not be a factor one way or the other.
Natalie
Natalie:
As you stated and I agree completely, they don’t have to admit me or anyone else. I mentioned it the way I did because even when grades are good and the student is obviously bright, there can be parts of a learning disabled/ADD record that need to be explained. Gaps to be precise. That is why I would prefer to bring it up before hand. “This what I need, Am I a good fit with this institution?, how would you like to proceed?” Better to get the information out before the investment is made and the life is ruined. Dyslexia is not a negative. It simply means another part of the brain is processing language and it can require another way of doing things. Such as oral exams or extended time. It is one on the reasons some schools allow the first two years to be done in three years. It seems that the way to thwart such a relationship from becoming adversarial, it simply be candid from the beginning. When I take the MCAT and it says Non-Standard Administration, they’re going to know anyways. Life is too short not to be who you are. In addition there are those who can’t cover up a disability and/or a trait. Dr. Michael Ain, a pediatric othoropedic surgeon (in your neck of the woods) at Johns Hopkins has achondroplasia. He was turned down by every program to which he applied the first time. I don’t think he had the ability not to be a dwarf just for the interview. Its not the “elephant in the room.” It’s how you address it. I hope I get in. I know I can be a good physician. But medicine is not the only song to sing. If it works great but if it doesn’t that’s OK too. That is something everyone who applies has to come to terms with. Just because you want to be a doctor, doesn’t mean it will happen.
I don’t have good advice for you about whether or not to tell, but I can give you some info I stumbled across regarding situations such as yours. Some time ago, I checked web info of UNC-Chapel Hill and East Carolina medical schools and noticed that Learning Disabilities and Mental Illness (that is effectively managed) were directly addressed in school admission information as “doable.” Both schools stated that that such students could gain admission and that the school(s) would provide necessary accommodations, HOWEVER, the information also stated that no such accommodations are made for USMLE or other board/licensing exams. Students must be able to pass tests under standardized conditions. In effect, the information said that one with such disabilities will be able to get a medical degree but that does not guarantee that one would also get a license to practice. Then again, pursuing a dream, a passion is not about guarantees.
Anita,
As Dr. Renard so aptly put it in another post, this is a marathon and not a sprint. I am aware of the “boards” issue and I will cross that bridge when I get to it. The Jesuits have a saying “do what you are doing.” One thing at a time.
It is only a matter of time before the USMLE is challenged in the courts. If it hasn’t been by the time I get there… I guess I’ll punt. Thanks for the info.
I spent a lot of time thinking about how to deal with the probability that I would be discriminated against in the application process; I ended up telling my story in a way that people who weren’t likely to discriminate against me would know what I was saying, and people who were likely to discriminate against me would not. It absolutely worked; the homophobes breezed right by my years of working in AIDS in San Francisco, barely noticing, while a thoughtful Stanford student got me in a conversation about the specifics of my history. (Which, if you’re curious, you can find out more about here:
http://studentweb.med.harvard.edu/jmw16/html/whattheytaughtme.html
)
I simply wouldn’t be in medical school if it weren’t for the gay men who nourished and taught me, and if it weren’t for the coming-out process of my youth which ultimately led me into AIDS work. And the essay I wrote above could have been my application essay if I’d wanted to approach this process in the kind of way I think you’re contemplating, Meredith. But gay doctors were the first to tell me to keep it to myself.
The application process doesn’t define who you are as a human being. It defines what choices you’ll have as a human being. I understand why the tone of my previous posts and those of others distresses you, but I urge anyone to act in a way that keeps as many choices in your hand as possible–don’t give those choices to others by picking fights you’ll have ample time to fight, and fight when you have more power on your side (i.e., once you’re already in the door). If your MCAT is marked as special circumstances, OK, but choose carefully about how much to defend that and how much just to act like any other applicant until forced to do otherwise. I’d argue for the latter.
The point is not to accept discrimination; the point is to be strategic about when you’re going to fight it. The application process is one of the absolute low points of your own personal power, and I try not to fight battles when my potential opponents hold my fate in their hands. Once my fate wriggles free of them then that’s the time to let em have it if need be.
Good luck either way.
joe
Joe:
I hear what you are saying. I haven’t decided how to approach this. Being gay however doesn’t effect your ability to take an exam if you so choose not to reveal it. You can fly under the radar, I may not. My GPA is ~3.5 but I have a gap in my record. I have two years to redeem myself. I hope its enough. If it doesn’t work, I’ve always wanted to drive the big rigs (maybe truck driving school)… we’ll see
Meredith, the approach you describe would be the right one in a fair and just world where people were genuinely interested in their jobs and only too happy to help people who needed accommodations. It’s also growing to be the right approach in SOME parts of academia.
Medicine is not one of those parts. The continuing resistance of the USMLE to offer accommodations for LD and ADD is a tacit admission to individual schools that they can be weakly helpful or perhaps not helpful at all. Natalie has described it well - they can make your life he11 while saying that they are trying to help.
When you get to applying to medical schools, you would be well-advised to make anonymous inquiries (e.g. studentdoctor.net) about how schools handle people with LD. You could call the disability services office for the university without revealing that you’ve got an interview coming up at the med school, and ask what experiences they’ve had. You can get a lot of information while still maintaining the position of relative power that Joe is describing.
Be aware that medical schools often have a description of the physical capabilities required to perform the duties of a physician - this is used to exclude those with physical disabilities. The USMLE has used similar reasoning to deny accommodations to people with LD or ADD who need more time to read, saying that physicians in practice must be able to assimilate large quantities of information in a short time. Because of these arguments, to date the various laws protecting the rights of people with disabilities in education have NOT had an impact on medical schools or medical testing.
This is why those of us who are veterans are so strongly cautioning you against the open approach - in other educational venues, you can assume that pushing will eventually get you what you have a right to have. You cannot assume that in medicine.
Joe’s advice about not handing over more power than necessary is very wise. Remember that med school admissions is quite subjective. This means that schools can, if they choose, discriminate without looking like they are doing so. If you are up against someone with equal stats and experiences, and you’ve revealed a disability that is going to require work and expense on the part of the school, they can choose the other candidate and say “She was better in interviews,” or “His letters of recommendation made him the superior candidate.”
Are there conspiratorial activities going on in medical schools to discriminate against people with disabilities? No, I don’t think so. But why would you want to give someone a chance to discriminate even if they don’t realize they are doing it?
Although many gay people do fly under the radar, I actually had a similar challenge in the sense that it was my work in the gay community that made me eligible for medical school. (And, ironically, I’ve actually only been dating women for the past many years; nonetheless, unlike most of my gay friends, I had “gay” written all over my professional career.) My point is that, I had an unavoidably queer resume; but I spent a lot of time thinking about how to present that resume.
Your situation is also tougher in a way than mine because it is arguably relevant to medical school. You should get some advice about what questions you should and shouldn’t answer; what questions you can put off until you’re actually admitted; and so on. Judy Colwell may have some advice about this, I don’t know.
Anyway, the general idea is to keep as many cards in your hand as possible; don’t throw them down on the table until you think you’re going to win the bet.
–joe
Joe and Mary:
I hear you. I haven’t had anything tattoo’d yet. I also want to keep my options open. I know how helpfully unhelpful administrators can be. Some of them can be down right mean. I heard Natalie all too well and I know she is right. We’ll see how it goes. I do value the feedback. Thank you.
Did some research. The USMLE is computerized. I was not aware. THAT just lifted a burden from my shoulders. This is good news.
Meredith,
In First Aid for the USMLE it describes special accomodations that can be made for students, and it includes learning disabilities. Of course you have to provide a great deal of documentation, but I gather from what you’ve said that that wouldn’t be a problem. It says some of the accomodations available include:
-Assistance with keyboard tasks
-Audio rendition
-Extended testing time
-Extra breaks
-Enlarged typeface.
Furthermore, according to 1st Aid, approximately 75% of the total number of requests for all Steps are approved. I do not know when the USMLE began making these accomodations, but apparently they are now available.
Regarding whether or not you should reveal much about your situation, I agree with Mary-- I think you should make some anonymous inquires. I know at my school we have interviewed students with physical disabilities. I don’t know how many have gotten in. Also at MSUCHM we have an extended program, where students can do the first year over two, or the second year over two years, or even in some special situations both. It is quite common for students to do this, and no one thinks twice about it (probably because the first two years are P/F, and students are not ranked. I would expect at schools where there is a grading curve that things would be different, as there might be a perception of an unfair advantage).
Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.
Epidoc