Why do medical schools look down on summer classes? I would think as long as you do well it shouldn’t be a problem. Give me lots of feedback on this.
I wasn’t aware that med schools “look down” upon summer school classes. I would say most pre-meds, either because they are majoring in a non-science and/or want to make their course load during the regular year a little easier take classes during at least ONE summer.
I took the whole year of organic chemistry w/labs in an 8 week summer session (which really sucked, btw, and I don’t recommend it for everyone). A lot of my classmates were pre-med and had been pointed to this summer session by their advisors at various universities. I didn’t receive any negative comments about my summer ochem - if anything they were impressed that I managed to do it and do it well.
Now - that being said - it is probably best to avoid taking summer school classes if you have heard lots of rumors about them being easy or lacking in quality. You want to take classes that are going to give you the foundation you need to do well on the MCAT, and a course that is an “easy A” may not give that to you.
Although the adcoms MAY look down at summer school classes at some institutions, I can’t imagine that they would universally look down upon them. Has somebody told you that the medschools would not like your summer classes?
If its a serious concern for you, I would recommend calling the admissions offices of a few of the schools you are interested in and seeing what they tell you. If they seem hesitant or negative about summer school classes, ask them why.
I have never heard that AdComs view summer courses i any different light than any other course taken at a 4-yr institution.
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I took the whole year of organic chemistry w/labs in an 8 week summer session (which really sucked, btw, and I don’t recommend it for everyone).
OMG, you took an entire year of O-Chem in 8 weeks? WITH labs?!? How is that even possible? Was that 8 hours a day, 5 days a week or something? I can’t even imagine that such a hell could exist.
What school offered that, out of curiousity?
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OMG, you took an entire year of O-Chem in 8 weeks? WITH labs?!? How is that even possible? Was that 8 hours a day, 5 days a week or something? I can’t even imagine that such a hell could exist. What school offered that, out of curiousity?
Yeah - we had lecture M-F, 9-12 (with at least one test and quiz each week, and each test usually over 3-4 chapters) and lab T,R,F from 1:30 - 5:30. When I wasn’t in lab/class, I was studying or doing lab work.
Capital University (in Columbus, Ohio) has what they call a “Summer Science Institute” where they offer the full year of organic, physics, gen chem, and a few other classes during an 8 week period. Students from all over the place attend these sessions. The profs are very accessible, and there are multiple TA’s. We had about 35 people in our lecture session, taught by a PhD, and three TA’s. The labs were limited to 20 people, with a PhD and 2 TA’s. There was a regularly scheduled help session almost daily. At the end of the course, all students had to take the ACS organic chemistry exam as our final exam.
Oh yeah - did I mention that I took my ochem final on Monday, and took the MCAT on Saturday. Was also preparing for a September wedding, sending out wedding invitations, working on my AMCAS and personal statement and attempting to do a little MCAT review on subjects other than ochem?
Amy
As someone whose mantra is: “Take the pre-reqs at the most rigorous 4 year institution time and money will allow,” let me quote some random comments about summer school work from some of the med schools that many of my clients apply to (this is, again, from the most recent “Premedical Advisor’s Reference Manual,” information for which is collected by interviewing the director or ass’t. director in each of the admissions offices for all US and Canada MD/DO schools).
“Acceptability of classes taken at schools other than the candidate’s home institution, in summer programs, or abroad will depend on the applicant’s credentials and the individual programs they have selected. Taking science prereqs in the summer is discouraged.”
“Courses taken in summer school or in the evening are evaluated largely based on the institution where they are taken.”
“The Committee does not attached less credence to evening, summer school, postbac, but does notice attempts to take most/all premed classes in a non-competitive environment or singly without other academic challenges.”
“Courses taken in summer school or in the evening are evaluated largely based on the institution where they are taken.”
“Junior college courses are not recommended; summer courses are acceptable depending on wherre and why they were taken.”
“Courses taken during the summer to fulfill premed requirements should be completed either at the home institution or at a comparable university or college.”
“Premedical subjects not taken at the home institution during the day division of the regular academic year are cause for concern. This holds true for evening and summer courses.”
"Summer courses if taken at a school of similar caliber are accepted."
Obviously the bulk of these comments are for evaluating undergraduate applicants or those recently out of college. But as you know, it is a very competitive process and non-trads’ academics are judged in the same light.
Cheers,
Judy
Hm, thanks for the food for thought here. I’d expect that, say, an 8 week OChem course would be looked on more highly, because it’s more intense; though perhaps it’s perceived as not as informative, due to the constraints.
Re: "Premedical subjects not taken at the home institution during the day division of the regular academic year are cause for concern. This holds true for evening and summer courses."
As you said, Judy, that’s primarily for typical undergrads. Still… am I to interpret this to mean that me working full time and taking classes in the evening may be “cause for concern?”
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Hm, thanks for the food for thought here. I’d expect that, say, an 8 week OChem course would be looked on more highly, because it’s more intense; though perhaps it’s perceived as not as informative, due to the constraints.
I suspect that the 8-week course causes concern for a few reasons: one, as you noted, possibly “not as informative.” But the concern I would have is that you blow through the subject so quickly that it doesn’t really stick as well in your head. Organic chemistry is very conceptual and it is the foundation of so much of what you’ll do later and how you understand things. To be able to lay that foundation and really have it be a firm, solid base in 8 weeks is quite a challenge. This is just my thinking from having BTDT (been there done that) and of course individuals will vary in how they learn in such a situation.
Mary
Mary and all -
I feel my ochem course was pretty rigorous and intense. As I mentioned, we had to take the ACS exam at the end of the course, and whether or not the profs were invited back to teach the following summer depended on how their students performed on the exam. I believe they quoted somewhere that the summer students scored equal to or higher (on ave.) on the exam than the university’s students who took the course during the regular academic year.
Now - as far as the material sticking . . . I would say that’s definitely a problem. I definitely don’t feel that I have as good of foundation in ochem as I do in the courses that I took during the regular academic year.
Like I said in my earlier post (I think), intense summer classes aren’t for everyone. Several people dropped out of the summer ochem because they just couldn’t handle it.
As far as acceptability to medical schools - I was given the information on the summer courses by a pre-med advisor at the university I was taking pre-reqs at, and now attend med school at. I specifically asked her how taking classes there would be considered by adcoms, if there was any stigma attached to them, and if it was possible to do well. She assured me that she had many students who had taken the summer ochem, done well, and been admitted to med school.
I think the main point(s) to be taken home is to thoroughly investigate summer or evening classes before enrolling and make sure that they don’t have a bad reputation in the eyes of adcoms who know about them. Also - consider if you personally will be able to handle the intensity and devote yourself completely to the subject for the time frame.
Mary mentions that the 8 week course may be cause for concern because the material might not stick. I was asked about the course at a few of my interviews . . . about the intensity, the rigor, etc. I had to admit that although rigorous, I didn’t think that I remembered as much out of it as a regular session class. For me, I don’t think this became an issue because I did well on that section of the MCAT. Had I not done as well in that portion, the course might indeed have raised red flags.
Hi Amy,
I think it is insane that you were able to get through that much O-Chem in 8 weeks and pull off the ACS. It sounds like your interviewers were noting the fact that it might not stick as well, but honestly, if you could cut that much material that fast, who cares? You obviously can go back and get it a second time around if you really need to. I think it would take an immense amount of discipline and brains to pull that feat off… so kudos. Org-chem 1 (& lab) + calc based physics 2 in the same full-length semester (plus a creative writing class, but that wasn’t much work), nearly drove me insane. I was hell to be around and felt like a complete schmuck at home with my family because I had no time to do anything but study. I was getting up at 4am to study orgo nearly every weekday morning, while fresh before work. I think O-chem 2 will go easier though, because I feel like I’ve got a good handle on the basics.
Sam
Sam -
Yeah - it was tough. I lived in Columbus for the summer (an 85 mile commute one way was not feasable with the work load) and pretty much ate, breathed, and slept ochem. Whenever I got back to the house after classes or lab, I would take a lunch or dinner break, read the comics, and then get back to work. On a good night, I would be done with everything by 10 or 11, but there were nights where I was up until 1 or 2 studying for a quiz the next day or trying to finish up a lab assignment. It definitely would have been more doable if I had not taken the lab (and there were several people who chose to do the lecture one summer and lab the next). I had an excellent gen chem foundation and that helped immensely in helping me survive (and do well) ochem boot camp (as my friends and I called it)
Although a lot of it didn’t stick, I took Biochemistry the next quarter and reviewed a lot of the ochem there. Overall, I probably don’t have any worse grasp of the material than my classmates who took it as sophomores.
Good luck with the rest of your ochem!
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“Courses taken in summer school or in the evening are evaluated largely based on the institution where they are taken.”
What is the problem with evening courses?
At Hunter, where I take the classes, they have the same instructors (or at least the same set of rotating instructors) and the same number of hours as the daytime courses. There’s no difference that I can discern.
Do most places offer less rigorous courses in the evening?
Erica
What does “home institution” signify? I graduated in 2001 from a top tier public institution, and although I was working in and volunteering in health care during my undergrad, I was not convinced medicine was for me and so I did not take any science prereqs. I was a social science major interested in social issues. It was not until I left everything behind and went abroad to do rural health work that I realized that I should be going the “med school” route. So here I am in a state school (since my alma mater won’t take 2nd bachelor’s) taking the prereqs. Will this look bad on my transcripts, as if I avoided taking sciences at my original institution?
You will be fine. I think Judy is referring to students (most of whom are doing their original undergraduate) who deliberately go away from their schools to take science pre-reqs. The admissions comittees assume that this is because it was “easier” to take these classes at this other institution.
I was in the same situation that you are now in. I went to a terrific undergrad but went to a state school for my post-bacc. I had no problem getting accepted to a top-20 med school (not the one I chose to attend however). In our case, the admissions committee would be suspicious if we were to leave our post-bacc school to take Class X (i.e. physics), because they would assume it was to take an easier class. Also, many post-bacc programs teach Gen Chem I & II in the summer so that all of the pre-reqs can be done in one year. I don’t think this is looked upon negatively as it has become standard practice in for post-bacc programs.
Just my 2 cents,
Tara
Yes, generally the “home institution” is for college students who take their science pre-reqs somewhere perceived to be less difficult. I posted that information so that you could see what many schools think about the slightly out of the mainstream way to acquire the pre-reqs. Don’t stress too much over it, but as much as possible adhere to going to the “most rigorous 4 yr. institution that time/money will allow.”
Cheers,
Judy