Viable? Start from scratch? Divorce undergrad grades?

Nontraditional Premed Discussion
1

Hi:


Long story short, I have always wanted to be a doctor since I was like 5 or 6. Decades later, I still do. However, I have a horrible GPA & even worse BCMP GPA, all based on a TON of credit hours.


Cumulative Undergrad AMCAS GPA Incl. Post Bac: 2.485629336


Cumulative Hours Incl. Post Bac: 201.8


Cumulative Quality Points Incl. Post Bac: 501.6


Cumulative Undergrad AMCAS BCPM GPA Incl. Post Bac: 2.243298969


Cumulative BCPM Hours Incl. Post Bac: 97


Cumulative BCPM Quality Points Incl. Post Bac: 217.6


There are many reasons for why this happened (ADHD, family situation, partied, blah blah blah). It seems pointless to mention that I have a BA history & BS cellular biology from the flagship university of a southern state (not UVA or Chapel Hill). Additionally I have about 5 years bench research but no pubs (DNA/RNA/protein/ELISA/t ons of cell culture/embryonic stem cells, animal cloning, malaria vax development). I also have a few years of volunteer experience at a free clinic. I hate working in a basic research lab & also hate the lifestyle/culture of working in industry as a research assistant/associate (and may be underqualified for latter).


I spent the last 3-4 yrs working menial jobs/retail & traveling (recovering from & enjoying life). I have no kids nor mortgage.


I’m contemplating a few plans but wonder how viable they are in terms of having a sustainable like AND getting into med school (very open to Carribean, DO):


I am contemplating a few plans:


A) Working menial jobs & taking classes to nudge up my GPA (meaning I’d disclose previous undergrads). Currently looking into phleb/med tech/patient care tech programs which all take 3-6-9 months. Where I live the lowliest of tech jobs all require certification.


pro:


-can’t think of any other than not working in research lab


-can get phleb/med tech/patient care tech certs & work during school


con:


-really broke life until?


-my GPA seems terminally unimprovable so it may be a lost cause



B) Get phleb/med tech/patient care tech certs & start from scratch at community college w/ high school diploma in hand, no disclosing any college work already done. Get RN. Work. Get BSN (only b/c med schools require a bachelors for admissions). Do BCMP classes along the way then med sch or apply for postbac/medsch combo program.

pro:

-programs local to where I live

-a way to make a living regardless of getting into med school

-can get phleb/med tech/patient care tech certs & work during school

con:

4? yrs til BSN


C) either starting from scratch or disclose undergrad grades to transfer credits: some sort of bachelors in medical technology/clinical laboratory science, take BCMP courses along side, then apply to med school.

pro:

-a way to make a living regardless of getting into med school

-can be combined w/ BCMP classes from local CC

-can get phleb/med tech/patient care tech certs & work during school

con:

-don't know of local programs; there are online programs

-if I don't start from scratch & disclose undergrad grades, its less time but more impossible for med sch

-start from scratch = years before med school apps

Any thoughts?
2

Please tell me you are kidding. I am hoping this is a troll post.


On the off chance that it’s for real, here’s your answer for the idea of “leaving your past behind” or what you euphemistically refer to as “not disclosing past grades” – you must sign a statement verifying that your application is true and complete. You must submit every post-secondary grade you’ve ever earned. You cannot lie and state you never earned 'em. If you managed to do it, and later were caught, your application would be thrown out - or you’d be thrown out of med school - or residency. I am not kidding.


You are proposing academic fraud and misrepresentation. In short, you are proposing making your life into a lie. Not cool, my friend.

3

Rule one is Take a Breath.


One option which my quick reading of your note is a formal post-bacc, pre-med program, which gives you a chance to show to can do the work needed for medical school.


But to concur with Mary, you must disclose any and all classes taken anytime, anywhere. Perhaps a better way to think about it is you cannot do anything to erase your past but every step you take is a step closer.


And you have nothing to lose in trying, certainly to explore and see what is possible

4

Perhaps I’m feeling like inserting my foot into my mouth tonight…


Starting with the disclaimer that I’ve not done the requisite research, and without discounting the info already provided by two knowledgeable ppl who’ve already responded – I’ll guess that only the Texas “Academic Fresh Start” comes somewhat close to what you want. Furthermore, that program is probably limited to TMDAS, allows a fresh start on grades but not financial aid, and only applies to TX residents etc.

5

Ugh. Seriously? I hope this is a troll as well.


Says a lot. Can’t imagine having a lying, cheating physician caring for my health. Ick. Can’t imagine working along side one either when I will have busted my arse to become one. Double ick.


In the off chance that you are sincere about wanting to become a doc, then here’s the scoopage as I’ve been told:


Disclose ALL grades as mentioned.


Take classes now for the MCAT and get stellar grades.


Volunteer.


Shadow.


Get solid LORs to overcome crappy prior grades.


Take a deep breath. Do your best. Let the chips fall where they may.


Then take another breath.


Academic dishonesty makes my skin crawl, or any whiff of it.


Just say no.

6

FWIW, it was not my intention to deceive by omission. I posted that msg after looking through the app, supplemental & other app info of a nonAMCAS school. The almost complete lack of mentioning “state every course & college you attended” got my hopes up just a bit.

7

This is the very first I’ve ever heard of TMDAS. Will research.

8

The story that you have told is not unlike some other stories here. However, yours just like everyone else here has to start somewhere. Start with acknowledging that the past is the past, it is a part of you, and there is nothing you can do about it. For the time being, forget it even happened and concentrate on the here and the now.


Begin with a viable plan. If you do not want to go into research with your skills that is alright. There are other things you can do. However, if you want to become a physician, you will have to work very hard and realize that you are starting a marathon and not a sprint. Get things done right this time and more importantly have confidence in yourself.


Read the diaries and see what others have or are doing. Then make a plan.


Just like you cannot build a house without a blueprint, so too, you cannot get into medical school without a plan.

9

There was a long thread on the Texas Fresh Start Program about 12-18 months ago with the beginning link here:


http://www.oldpremeds.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?t…


I did a significant amount of research at the time and it is posted as the thread goes on.


However, also consider that many, many non-trads have grad baggage from bad to worse and have successfully over come them. For example, the AACOMAS (DO school application service) while reporting all grades is required, it takes only the highest grade into account when calculating the GPA for your application. Thus, repeating the science pre-reqs does substantially alter your GPA. But as Rule 3 States “it depends” on your situation

10
  • reddirt Said:
FWIW, it was not my intention to deceive by omission. I posted that msg after looking through the app, supplemental & other app info of a nonAMCAS school. The almost complete lack of mentioning "state *every* course & college you attended" got my hopes up just a bit.



Sorry to jump to a negative conclusion. As a newbie to the site, you couldn't know that we've had all sorts of people raise similar questions, only they were scheming and perfectly happy to lie. gonnif's advice is good. As you wade back in, I would further say, try just one course - do you know what undermined you in the past? Are you sure you'll be able to do better now? You can't afford one more less-than-stellar grade, so you need to proceed with the utmost caution. Good luck!

Mary
11

For what it’s worth, I started out with an undergrad GPA lower than yours. Yet I am determined to overcome it and succeeed.


I think it’s important to have a specific plan of attack, rather than just taking a bunch of courses. My circumstances are different than yours (I have no research experience), so what worked for me may not appeal to you.


I did two things…

  1. I took all of the prerequisite science courses and did very well. This helped my GPA and gave me sources for recommendation letters.

  2. I completed a Masters program and did very well. The two downsides to getting a graduate degree are that grad school A’s are perceived as easier to get, and the grades won’t impact your uGPA. But the upside is that you demonstrate your ability to initiate, thrive in and succeed at a complete course of study. Another benefit is a lot of schools will allow you to work part time as an instructor.


    Now that I have the applications out, I’m working on getting more research experience. I’ll also take upper level science courses to demonstrate that I can handle it when the concepts get more sophisticated (plus biochem, anat, etc. are considered good prep for med school).


    Hang in there! You’ve got a great background on the research side, so just take the prereqs then kick butt on the MCAT.



12

reddirt, there are a lot of us that are trying to dig ourselves out of the holes we made for ourselves when we were younger.


Stupidly, and immaturely, I had a few false starts where I didn’t withdraw properly. Some classes I just received a W, but a few unfortunately with an F. Even though it is 15 or more years ago since this period of time, it haunts me. My GPA since I restarted back to school (over 130 credit is a 3.89). Unfortunately, to date my approximate cGPA is a 3.12. The highest GPA I would be able to get would be a cGPA of 3.40, although my science GPA would be higher ~3.7.


My AACOMAS GPA would be higher due to grade replacement, but they will still see my prior attempts.


I’ve been wondering if I should perhaps wait until 2011 to apply (admission to class of 2016). My feeling is that if I apply in 2010, I’ll have all my prereqs finished and I would show that I have had two full semesters of classes, but if I wait until 2011…I would have finished my bachelors program, I would have taken a few advanced science classes (looking at taking biochemistry, genetics and a physiology class). This would actually showing that I completed my degree. I would also plan on doing a one-year Master’s degree at USF through their Med program (aging and neuroscience which I am very interested in exploring) during the glide year.


Oh, what to do, what to do!!!

13

Is your goal to get into medical school or to get into medical school quickly? Many non-trad students suffer from what I call “premature application” Better to wait and have a strong application in my opinion

14
  • Krisss17 Said:
I've been wondering if I should perhaps wait until 2011 to apply (admission to class of 2016). My feeling is that if I apply in 2010, I'll have all my prereqs finished and I would show that I have had two full semesters of classes, but if I wait until 2011...I would have finished my bachelors program, I would have taken a few advanced science classes (looking at taking biochemistry, genetics and a physiology class). This would actually showing that I completed my degree. I would also plan on doing a one-year Master's degree at USF through their Med program (aging and neuroscience which I am very interested in exploring) during the glide year.

Oh, what to do, what to do!!!



I agree with Gonnif, please wait the extra year. Don't rush, it won't do you any good. However, completing the Bachelors and getting those higher level Science courses under your belt sounds really good and more than likely make you a stronger applicant.
15

reddirt,


As others have posted (especially Dr. Renard and Gabe Lerman), full disclosure is the best policy and coming up with a logical game plan for improvement is crucial here. A large majority of posters on OPM (ESPECIALLY ME) have had or have to overcome some hiccups from the past but the key is to overcome them without leaning on them as a crutch. Take your time, as Gonnif often says “take a deep breath” and move forward. Best wishes to you!

16
  • futurdoc2BE Said:
  • Krisss17 Said:
I've been wondering if I should perhaps wait until 2011 to apply (admission to class of 2016). My feeling is that if I apply in 2010, I'll have all my prereqs finished and I would show that I have had two full semesters of classes, but if I wait until 2011...I would have finished my bachelors program, I would have taken a few advanced science classes (looking at taking biochemistry, genetics and a physiology class). This would actually showing that I completed my degree. I would also plan on doing a one-year Master's degree at USF through their Med program (aging and neuroscience which I am very interested in exploring) during the glide year.

Oh, what to do, what to do!!!



I agree with Gonnif, please wait the extra year. Don't rush, it won't do you any good. However, completing the Bachelors and getting those higher level Science courses under your belt sounds really good and more than likely make you a stronger applicant.



I'm actually leaning more and more in that direction. Since I can do anything about my past, if I can show that I have a successful present, I'd definitely have more options when I do apply. Plus, I really like the idea of doing the 1yr masters progam they have at USF. While it is not a SMP, it is meant to prepare students for med school, especially for the basic sciences during the first year.

It'll also buy me a year to continue to build a better credit rating (more stupid youthful indiscretions to cleanup).
17

Thanks for the responses. I am still formulating a plan, but time is ticking away.


In the meantime, I am taking a phlebotomy class that’s pass/fail but also involves a lot (~100) of clinical sticks later on and is a qualifier to sit for some national phleb board exam. Phleb is a backup for everything. It’s not a high income way to make a living, but it’d seem like something I could live with (as opposed to a 100% lab job).


I am also taking classes (& getting A’s) at the local community college (13hrs, a low but full load, after being out of skool for ~5yrs). Some of these classes also happen to be pre-reqs/co-reqs w/ getting into the local CC’s RN program… which is also a back up plan if I never make it into med school.


The classes are:


A&P 1


Bio 101 (AP’d out in HS so I need this anyway)


Pharmacology (allied/ancillary healthcare workers)


medical terminology


a non sci 1 credit course


My CC offers cell bio, which I may retake b/c I got a B (& also because I actually want to??)


Anyone w/ opinions on what I’m currently doing?


This may be a silly Q but should I just keep taking as many courses I can afford to time/$-wise to raise my GPA? I mean, the damned thing ain’t gonna raise itself, right?


Thanks a bunch in advance for any & all comments.