Hello,
I’m new to this group, so forgive me if I’m posing an old question buried in a thread somewhere.
I’m 34 yrs old and want to apply to med school again because it has always been my dream to be a physician. I applied a long time ago, right after graduating from undergrad in 1997 from Cornell (BA, Psych), but was rejected. I want to re-take pre-med coursework again, retake the MCAT and reapply, but I don’t know if it can ever make up for my failed past applications in the eyes of admissions committees. I want to go for it if there is a real possibility that, if I have good numbers, I can get in.
Some background…
While in undergrad, I took Bio and O Chem at Cornell, but did very poorly in O Chem. I ended up taking G Chem and Physics during summers home at SUNY Buffalo and then O Chem at Columbia University after graduating. I took the MCAT in Apr 1998 getting only a 28 (S,11,9,8). I retook it 3 months later, but got the same score (I attribute some of this to the fact that I was going through a difficult personal period at the time and was in treatment for depression). This experience made me afraid to take it a 3rd time and I stupidly convinced myself that I could get in with a 28 somewhere. I made another major mistake in my application process back then: I had no hospital volunteer experience (For some reason, I also convinced myself that my bio-med academic research experience and recommendations from physician researchers was a decent substitute).
After being rejected, I worked in academic bio research for 8 years at Columbia and Rockefeller and was able to get co-authorship on a couple of publications. Lab work wasn’t really paying the rent though, so I got and MBA and now I work at a major pharmaceutical company in a marketing management track program. Over the past 10 years, I’ve seen the many faces of medicine through my work experience and I’m convinced that my first dream, to become a physician, was the right one, but I don’t know if my history of rejection will prevent me from ever getting in.
Now I am older, happier, wiser and better able to apply myself and I sincerely think I could get good grades and MCAT scores if I tried. But can the “sins” of my past failure ever be washed away in the eyes of admissions committees?
Looking for brutal honesty,
AETYL
(standard disclaimer) Middle America is a little different than either coast or upper mid-west (standard disclaimer)
There is more to the story right?.. HOW poorly in O chem? Science GPA? Overall GPA?.. ah well all of that is water under the bridge.
An MCAT composite of 28 out this way is good enough, remember an average of 28 means some are above AND some MUST be below.
You are certainly not too old…
Folks with “skeletons in the closet” need to treat the bones like “nucyulur” waste… time, distance and shielding.
Time - if all of this happened 2, 3 or even 4 years ago you are at a disadvantage. Is this “rebound” what has changed since the last turn down? In some ways being 10 years out one could make the argument that the skeleton are REALLY old fossils, nothing more than a historic curiosity.
If you DO decide to have a show, I urge you not to fall in one of the BIGGEST PITFALLs that I have observed over and over on this forum.
RESIST the urge to feel like you need to “catch-up” to where you “think you should have been all along”, NO matter HOW hard you work it is impossible for you to graduate from medical school in 18 months.
This is a long term project and there is NO medical school in this country that grants allowances or some sort of credit for finishing “fast” or in a hurry!
This is a parody but you will get the picture:
- Adult “wakes-up” and realizes medicine as his “destiny” [possible panic here]
- Adult upset at “wasted years” [possible panic here]
- Adult feels behind where he should or could be [possible panic here]
- Adult needs to HURRY and catch up and not “waste” any more time. [possible panic here]
- Rush to enroll in anything “RATT NOW” at the local CC (PLAN? NAH, time for ACTION NOW)
- Adult (considering death before completion) enrolls in 22 semester hours (what? you did 16 semester hours in college, a decade ago right?)
- In November “adult” will likely face sad realities:
a) took too many hours and only managed a 2.0 and had to drop the theater course so along with the C’s there is a W
b) took courses out of order, what physics is easier with trigonometry first? BUT the D you got will be around MUCH longer.
c) took courses that don’t transfer (what FEMALE physiology does not get me out of Mammalian physiolgy?),
d)took the wrong version of course (well it said “chemistry” how did I know it was only half what I needed)
e) have a hand full of W’s or D’s and F’s… GAME OVER
Distance - can you demonstrate that the former, naughty wild-oats-sowing you is dead an buried. Success in other aspects of life (experiences) is good… more the merrier, adults have it good, we have jobs with REAL responsibility
Shielding - Cover those nasty OLD bad grades with nice fresh new ones, like armor plate, the more the merrier, the requisites and perhaps a few extra to completly block the past: Microbiology, Immunology, Virology, Anatomy, Physiology or Biochemistry.
You are right you will have to do the reqs over, whats more you are going to have to put excellent AND consistent numbers so if you are not committed or serious DO NOT START until you are. If the “new you” you are trying to build falters again, or quits in a way that shows on your transcripts… GAME OVER.
That said, I am living proof that “regular people” CAN do this, so do your homework, see an advisor, make a plan that allows you flexibility start slow and to change if needed.
see: Richard’s rules
http://www.oldpremeds.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?t…
Dear Richard,
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I was starting to think that my post title was so depressing that no one was going to respond.
I wanted to elaborate a little more on my situation.
You asked, “There is more to the story right?.. HOW poorly in O chem? Science GPA? Overall GPA?”
I did O Chem originally during my undergrad at Cornell (c/o 1997). It was an notoriously hard “weed-out” course of 200 students (my mistake for taking it) and I got a C and a D. Strangely, I did very well in the labs though, getting A+'s both semesters. As for the rest of my pre-med course work, I can’t recall the exact grades, but I got something like the following at Cornell: A’s in English, B’s in Calc (also had Calc credit from AP Calc in HS) and B/A- in Bio. I took G Chem and Physics during summer breaks home in Buffalo. At UB the courses were much easier and I got A’s in both. My overall Science GPA at that point was probably hovering around 2.9 (?). I applied with these grades and a 28 on the MCAT in 1999 and, of course, got rejected. I lived in NYC at the time and applied to tough schools: Columbia, NYU, NY Med College, UB, etc.
A year later I decided to retake O Chem at Columbia and got B’s finally! I also took Biochem © and Human Physiology (B+). I reapplied with my same MCAT score, thinking the new grades in O Chem would do the trick. It did not of course. I was rejected again. In your “Richard’s rules” you mentioned jumping through all the right hoops: I didn’t make it through or even try for some of those hoops 10 years ago.
You also wrote about “Distance”: “can you demonstrate that the former, naughty wild-oats-sowing you is dead an buried. Success in other aspects of life (experiences) is good… more the merrier, adults have it good, we have jobs with REAL responsibility”
Looking back, I think the reasons why I missed screwed up had to do with the fact that I lacked focus and commitment, bit off more than I could chew academically while working in undergrad and was dealing with clinical depression (and on antidepressants) throughout college and my early 20’s. After graduating these distractions were still present: I worked 50+ hrs/wk, took classes and tried to get my personal life in order (i.e. breaking up with my live-in boyfriend of 3 years the week before I took the MCAT didn’t help either).
In the 8 years that followed my last attempt at applying to med school, I’ve gotten a handle on my depression and done scientific work I am proud of (got authorship on 2 papers) at 2 prestigious research institutions, Columbia and Rockefeller. In the past 2 years, I graduated from an Honors MBA program, got recruited into a highly competitive management track program at a Fortune 500 company, got married and am about to give birth to my first baby. I know motherhood will be demanding, but I know of some young mothers who have gone to med school recently, so I feel like it can be done.
So given all that, a couple of questions for you…
- At this point I think I would have to retake Bio, Chem, O Chem and Physics and retake the MCAT. I know this may be more a question for pre-med advisors, but do you think I would have to retake Calc and English?
- I already have > $100 in student loans from undergrad and grad combined. Do you think it’s feasible to take out another $150+ for med school or am I crazy?
-
What do you think about doing a DO vs. and MD?
Your comments and also those of female premeds/MD’s with young children, would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks again,
AETYL
- At this point I think I would have to retake Bio, Chem, O Chem and Physics and retake the MCAT. I know this may be more a question for pre-med advisors, but do you think I would have to retake Calc and English?
How were your grades? if they were good then NO, if not or you need the NUMBERS to bring the whole thing up then YES
- I already have > $100 in student loans from undergrad and grad combined. Do you think it’s feasible to take out another $150+ for med school or am I crazy?
This one I cannot answer, it up to you… this goes with the territory, how deep is your committment? I can say I am in a program for providing physicians to underserved areas (all but 5 counties in Kansas) and my medical education was FREE (including $2000/ month to live on) in exchange, I prectice in an underserved area 1 year for every year I take the grant.
- What do you think about doing a DO vs. and MD?
IN our neck of the woods both are great… the DO program KCUMB is frankly outstanding and I could be easily convinced the education is better than ours…
Your comments and also those of female premeds/MD’s with young children, would be greatly appreciated!
You are probably going to need a spouse or parents who are “bought in” from the beginning… I would not be here except for the committment by my wife Kathy
Richard