What would you do?

Okay, no longer lurking. I need advice.


I have a BA in a foreign language (2002), and I minored in Biology. Over 167 hours, I have a 3.2 overall, and a 2.7 science (courtesy of a D in Organic I, and a smattering of Cs in other classes). Neither one of these scream “Med School Ready!”. So, which way do I go? I have thought about getting another Bachelors (Clinical Lab Sciences), or doing an SMP. I know that for AMCAS, repeated courses will be averaged, so a post-bac would not do much good.


Sorry this was so long, and thank you for any replies that come.

  • Annie Said:
Okay, no longer lurking. I need advice.

I have a BA in a foreign language (2002), and I minored in Biology. Over 167 hours, I have a 3.2 overall, and a 2.7 science (courtesy of a D in Organic I, and a smattering of Cs in other classes). Neither one of these scream "Med School Ready!". So, which way do I go? I have thought about getting another Bachelors (Clinical Lab Sciences), or doing an SMP. I know that for AMCAS, repeated courses will be averaged, so a post-bac would not do much good.

Sorry this was so long, and thank you for any replies that come.



Hi there,

You may want to look into a post-bacc with linkage. Goucher has one of these but I am sure that there are others.

Natalie

Graduated 2002, started school 1998, so the courses are from the last ~8 years, 9-10 by application time.


Most schools require pre-reqs within the last 5-7 years, so it may pay to retake them. However, if they allow you to take higher-level coursework instead of BioI, OrgoI, etc, that would probably reflect better (provided you do well).


I believe that several formal Post-Baccs are specifically tailored to situations like yours - where you have the pre-reqs and want to demonstrate improvement. Following up those may pay as well.


… and pfft, that wasn’t at all long for a first post - some of us can really ramble! Welcome to OPM.

Retake your pre-req’s as a Postbac and get A’s. A formal program with linkage would be ideal but is not required. The most important thing is to get those grades up to A’s. Ideally, you should also take these classes at the most rigorous 4 year university $ will allow.


You are correct they will be averaged.


Good Luck!

Thank you guys for your responses.


Looking at post-bacs as I type…

Achim,


Hello Neighbor.


Does UW have a formal postbac program, or are you just taking the pre-reqs you know you need outside of any degree or program?


I was at Seattle university, and then due to the private University price, I decided to go to my local CC. I however, LOVE the CC so much better than SU. The prof’s are very good, and the system is set up for success everywhere you look. I have just been a bit worried about med schools comparing CC to Universitiy credits. UW admissions stated it did not matter one way or the other.


How do you like UW? Would you recommend it, and what track are you on as I asked above?


Thanks for you input.





Libbey

Libbey,


It is great to see a Seattle local on the boards. Welcome!


First, a quick answers to your questions:


Libbey wrote:


Does UW have a formal postbac program, or are you just taking the pre-reqs you know you need outside of any degree or program?


No, the U of W does not have a formal postbac program. Yes, starting this fall I will begin to take the classes I need.


How do you like UW? Would you recommend it, and what track are you on as I asked above?


Unsure as I do not start classes until the fall.


Regarding you concerns about CC’s I know that UWSOM accepts CC credits and even gives some recommendations regarding CC’s here:


http://www.washington.edu/students/ugrad/advising/…


A bit of background on my decision regarding CC’s vs. Seattle U. vs. U of W:


As part of my medical student planning I consulted a professional admissions councilor. Her recommendations given my background:


• Undergrad GPA of ~3.1 at a small local Oregon college (Grades all over the place)


• Undergrad completed on a somewhat part-time basis over 7 years


Take classes’ at the most rigorous University that finances will allow keeping in mind that good grades are the most important factor.


So I did quite a bit of research on the local schools and narrowed it down to Seattle U and the U of W based on my own Pro/Con list:


Seattle U


Pros:



Pre-medical postbac program


Mock MCAT Winter Term


Advisor for classes, credentials and personal statements


Advisory Committee that offers a mock Interview, committee and individual recommendation letters


Smaller classes


Cons:


Expensive - I estimate more than twice the cost of taking classes as a U of W Postbac undergrad.


Courses not offered every quarter


Small regional University (less prestigious)


U of W


Pros:



Almost all pre-req classes offered each quarter (A, W, Sp and Su)


Tier 1 Prestigious and rigorous University


Inexpensive


Cons:


Large University Classes (Con for some)


No formal Pre-Medical program


No Advisory committee (No committee letter)


Have to search out advising support and letters


Initially, I planned to take all of my classes at U of W (hence my signature) but in reality I am guessing it will be a mix of both schools to maximize my schedule, credentials and finances. If money were no concern I would probably take all my classes at Seattle U.


I would be very interested to hear about your experiences at Seattle U? What didn’t you like about Seattle U other than the cost?

Yeah Seattleites!


I took all of my pre-meds at the UW


It was disorienting for me, as I had just transferred and these were my first 300+ people classes. I thought they were really hard, struggled with B+'s at first, but easily mastered them by the third in series.


The worst thing about there is, Getting good LoR’s from science professors. I never got to know my professors…They do not make time for you. I always had to work full time, so tracking them down was a pain. You have TA’s (some good some horrid) that know you. Researchers are contractually obligated to teach at least a certain amount, and some like it while others hate it. Some don’t even want to be bothered with you.


Another thing regarding professors in the higher level science (biochemistry, bacteriology, virology, even comparative A&P, etc) is there are many professors for one class. For example, some will lecture for 3 weeks, while others lecture for a few days. So getting to know them for a letter is silly. Unless you work for them or have some outside of class relationship with them, it will be very bland. That is my biggest problem with the UW. Also no help when it comes to mock interviews and LoR’s.


I felt my best letters came from CC, I spent 2 years there, but the classes were not challenging.I earned straight A’s, but did not feel as if I really pushed myself.


Pro: The UW loves multiple choice questions, which is good practice. Also while I was practicing for the MCAT, I recognized questions from old gen chem exams…


I don’t know if medical schools consider LoR’s from CC teachers differently than university professors (since they have different degrees). That would be something to be answered before choosing where to go.




misscompassion,


Did you take your classes at the UofW as a non-matriculted undergrad? If so, did you have any trouble getting into the courses due to enrollment size limits?


I have noticed that the biology sequence appears to fill up quickly each quarter.

I was matriculated undergrad. Thus I had no problems getting into classes.


I can tell you though, that classes DO fill up and it may be difficult to get in as non-matric. Summer is your best bet.


I think Ochem is the worst. I remember in the first week it was so full that if you did not get there early you had to stand because of the many people that wanted the classes but they were full. I guess they hoped people would drop and open spots. Fun times.



Misscompassion,


I was afraind there might be some challenges in getting the classes I need on a regular schedule. Probably another reason for me to consider Seattle U as an alternative.


Thanks!

Hello Achim, and Misscompassion.


It is great to hear your experiences on a local level. I’m glad to have some neighbors!


Here is a bit of my Educational Journey. A more detailed version is on another post if you want to research it from the Members tab.


I initially started at SU thinking the Post-bac program was my best option. The classes are smaller and I got to know the professors really well. I love professor Sorenson, she is a great chem teacher. She is now the department head. The professors were available and willing to always help. Some more than others of course…


I however quickly learned that the expense was absolutely RIDICULOUS! The parking fee alone is over $200.00 a quarter! I tried to park on the street and ended up with three parking tickets in the first quarter. It is really hard to feed a meter all day… I caved and paid the $ to park in the garage, only to find out the garages are mostly full and I have to walk forever in the rain anyway! I began researching to see if the cost of SU was worth it. Was the cost going to give me something I could’t really get somewhere else? A great letter from the committee or great relationships with professors hoping to get a spot in a research project, or the MCAT mock test/interview process…?





Yes, they do have pre-professional committees and Dr. Hudson is a pool of information as a guidance counselor etc. But everything the school offers, I found I could acheive on my own.

  1. Dr. Hudson produces all her updates on MCAT info and recomendations on the web. I and anyone else can access it without being a student. So that was still covered…Besides the MCAT web-site itelf is a pool of information.

  2. MCAT classes are everywhere. Ones I can afford after not spending $4,500.00 a quarter. (for only two classes!) Instead I spend $850.00 +/- a quarter. A savings of $10,950.00 a year!

  3. I researched schools by calling admission counselors and web info. Seems CC vs. U credits are not a barrier. Just make sure you get A’s wherever you go!

  4. I have great relationships with my professors. I absolutely love Edmonds CC. They are incredibly supportive and want you to succeed. I have been there a year, and even professors I don’t know yet, the first day of class after calling my name have said, “You’re finishing your pre-req’s for Med. school right?”


    Prof’s are very available and willing to work with you.

  5. The Chem head and Bio head are very aware of what you need for the prereqs, as well as the chem and bio professors. THey are on it. I’ve been given advice to strenghen my resume etc. THis is a strong school. I can only speak for my CC. I don’t know about the others, but this one is fantastic.

  6. Since I have good relationships with my professors, and they know me and my academic performance, I will get great LOR’s. My professors all hold Ph’d’s, so I don’t feel the letters will quietly be dismissed as “less than”.


    I feel better about three individual letters, than one from a committee anway.

  7. Although I really liked SU, I have found my classes at Edmonds to be far more challenging. At SU, it was T/F, fill in the blank… Not at Edmonds. Mostly, I get four pages blank with just the questions … YOu better know your stuff! I am a very strong student, because of it.


    I was asking about UW because I thought it could give me the University credits with the cc cost. From your information, I’m finding that doesn’t sound too promising a path for me.


    On of my dearest friends graduated with a 2.72 and then later went back… Got her pre-req’s and had a science gpa of 3.9. She had no problem getting into school. she did go to SU, but took an MCAT class outside SU, and studied for four months for the MCAT, and took a mock test for 6 weeks every Saturday. she was the one that encouraged me to leave SU and go to a CC.


    She is now finishing her residency at STANFORD, and has been a part of their selection committee. She likes to see students that are good business people too. Wise. And she feels that wisdom states, if you can get the same thing for less, why wouldn’t you do it??


    Older students have expenses younger ones don’t. For one, mommy and daddy aren’t footing our college bills, nor are they making our car payements… At least mine are not!


    So, I would say. Go wherever you are going to be the most successful, and do your absolute best!


    Keep in touch you two. I would love to hear how you are doing.


    Tks again,


    Libbey

Libbey, I found the same thing with my CC. I didn’t go in expecting much, so I was impressed with the coursework, small class sizes, and low expense.


That said, now I’m getting back to university coursework (ironically, after screwing up at an expensive private school, I’m studying hard at a party-rep state school). While the courses are much larger (and across town), higher-level coursework is available, and it meets the criterion of “the most rigorous coursework plausible.”


Re: “1. Dr. Hudson produces all her updates on MCAT info and recomendations on the web. I and anyone else can access it without being a student. So that was still covered…Besides the MCAT web-site itelf is a pool of information.”


Do you have a link handy?


Thanks

Trying to delete dublicate posts…

Hi Adam,


I can’t seem to find the direct link for the MCAT info. It is in a large Adobe file. I usally just find it online, I will keep looking. In the meantime, here is a Dr. Hudsom help link that might be of some assistance for general info.


www.seattleu.edu/scieng/biology/prepropro.html

Libbey, yours is the sort of attitude that will definitely take you far. For YOU, I agree that indeed, CC credits will probably be OK. I do have a few caveats for the “general readship,” however…

  • Libbey Said:


3. I researched schools by calling admission counselors and web info. Seems CC vs. U credits are not a barrier.



For SOME SCHOOLS. You definitely need to do your homework on this one.

  • Quote:


4. The Chem head and Bio head are very aware of what you need for the prereqs, as well as the chem and bio professors. THey are on it. I've been given advice to strenghen my resume etc. THis is a strong school. I can only speak for my CC. I don't know about the others, but this one is fantastic.



In my experience (which consists of talking to lots of other folks who've gone to CCs), you've gotten exceptionally strong support from this faculty - good for you! To some extent, this may be a reflection of the school as being a particularly strong one. Another way to look at it is that YOU sound very pro-active and I would expect that you bring out the best in people.

  • Quote:
5. Since I have good relationships with my professors, and they know me and my academic performance, I will get great LOR's. My professors all hold Ph'd's, so I don't feel the letters will quietly be dismissed as "less than".

I feel better about three individual letters, than one from a committee anway.



I am quite sure that you will, indeed, get great LORs. The Ph.D. in and of itself may not mean as much as you think. It's the experience of the professor in assessing medical school candidates that comes out in these letters, and that's one reason why a lot of us over the years have cautioned about CCs - the professors' letters (regardless of their individual strengths) in one way or another reveal that they do not know many potential doctoral-candidate students, and so their assessments are taken with a much bigger grain of salt. This is certainly not always accurate and again, I can't stress enough that you sound like a STRONG candidate in so many ways that the CC is not going to hold you back, but I want to be sure that people do understand one more reason why a CC may be a somewhat riskier choice.

As for committee vs. individual letter, here again I think your letters will be strong and will serve you well. But I do feel the need to gently point out that what YOU think is better isn't the key, here - it's what med schools prefer. (I annoy people occasionally by pointing out that it's "their game, their ball, their rules.") Some schools will happily take the three LORs; others will be snitty about it and their snittiness could actually hurt an application. Sounds stupid, but could happen. It's not something you can control, except by getting the best possible individual LORs you can, and it isn't usually a big deal - but for those who ARE facing the choice, for whom a committee letter IS an option, don't be dismissive of it.

(Oh, and if you're at a school that does committee letters, and you do NOT use the committee, you'll need to explain why. Generally it's taken to mean that your school doesn't think enough of you to write you a letter, and that's a bad thing.)

Anyway, Libbey, your careful description of how you made your choices is excellent - it will help lots of folks. It is going to be a pleasure to follow your path to med school!

Mary

I agree with you Mary. For ME the cc option was a better fit. I just could not justify going into further debt. However, if someone said, Hey, Libbey I will give you a 100% scholarship to Seattle University and even throw in gas money… I would finish out the last of my “series” of classes so things transfer, and then I would go back to SU! IN A HEARTBEAT!


I agree about the letters, and I also agree with you in the fact that I am very proactive. Almost pushy .


I will keep in mind about the letters. I’m not sure what other options I have at this point…


I have a Trauma doctor and the Head Charge nurse from the Trauma Center that have approached me about writing a letter. They have known me for years. I just haven’t seen much written on personal letters outside of Acadamia. The schools that mentioned an extra letter or two, didn’t necessarily encourage it.


I am open to any suggestions you have regarding acadamia, letters, ANYTHING. The voice of Experience is one I like to listen to!


Thanks Mary,


Libbey

Libbey -


If they are willing to write you a letter, then by all means have them do it. I had a personal letter written, but only ended up submitting it to one school. All of the other schools specified the letters needed to be academic, etc. Some schools have no specification on # of letters, and there is the occasional school that asks for a non-academic letter. So, I would have them write it, and if the opportunity arises to submit it, then do so.

Thanks Emergency. Good advice.


Libbey

One other thing I thought of with letters from the doc and charge nurse. Even if you aren’t able to use their references for medical school admissions, those would be the types of letters that might be great for scholarships.