Hey all, so after four years of work I’m finally at a point where I’m starting to think about the process of applying to medical school in concrete terms. I have something I’ve been debating and I’d like input.
For anyone who isn’t familiar, I’m working on a PhD right now at Tulane (Parasitology & Tropical Medicine). I’m finishing up my classwork and rotations and starting to eye my quals. After this next academic year, I’ll have another 3 or so years of working on my dissertation, and possibly another 1-2 for my post-doc. [If I do a post-doc, the time to do so will be prior to medical school because I’m sure as heck not going to find time after.]
The program I’m really targeting for medical school is Tulane’s HEAL-X program, which is an accelerated MD program for applicants who already hold a PhD. I know that it’s really receptive to taking PhDs from Tulane programs and so I’d really like to put myself on their radar. My main concern is two things. First, I’m not sure that I want to contact them so long before applying that they have time to forget about me. Second, the majority of things that I’m counting on getting me into medical school and setting apart my application are in my PhD program- working with infectious disease, clinical experience, shadowing, publications, MCATs, etc- and they’re things I haven’t gotten to yet. For the time being 90% of what I do is coursework and rotations. So the things I want to highlight if I’m asked to tell someone about myself very largely are still coming. On the other hand, a lot of faculty in my program (including some who are MDs and dual appointed to the med school) tell my that I’m way too worried about my undergrad and that med schools will be primarily concerned with my PhD work (aside from undergrad prerequisites).
So anyway, when should I be thinking about getting in touch with the med school about my interest in their program? When my classes are done? After quals? When I have a publication or two? What point is the right point in time?
I’m not even sure who “getting in touch with” at a med school would help your case for admission. It seems like there are tons of people that will touch your record before an interview gets granted. The person you get via general phone/email will be someone who can answer basic questions and add a note to your file, which you won’t have as a non-applicant at this stage. Finding the right person to talk to in order to gain sway would probably take a broker or other professional relationship that you seem to already be developing. Your post grad work will no doubt carry more weight than anything you did in undergrad (assuming you didn’t bomb the prereqs). You definitely have a leg up on the med/clinical side of things, but don’t underestimate the power of other things to bring a balance to your app. This is especially true if you are going to apply to a program that specifically looks at people who already have a phd.
I don’t know that throwing out your info this early would be helpful unless the admissions office can give you guidance on what else you can do to be a strong applicant (which they probably tell the same thing to everyone). I would definitely express your interest to the people you work with who are affiliated with the med school. They can introduce you to the “right” people or otherwise get your name out there. It wouldn’t hurt to have a CV available should they want one, though like you said you haven’t finished a lot of the things you’re working toward.
I’m not too familiar with the MD/PhD thing, but I guess my question is are you wanting to be clinical or more research centric after school? If it’s the former, do you need to do post-doc work before applying? If it’s the latter, will you not have time after school for post-doc work? Again, please excuse my naïveté.
- kennymac Said:
My prerequisites are an interesting case. My grades weren't very good in them from undergrad, but the fact I'm T/Aing for those classes now I'm hoping will carry some weight. Honestly, once I'm settled into a lab on a permanent basis I'm going to do some research into my options for retaking them.
- kennymac Said:
Can you expand on this a little? I'm not sure if "bring a balance" is meant in the positive or negative sense.
- kennymac Said:
Graduate admissions work different from medical school admissions because we don't usually have the same scale of applications to sort through. I've applied to schools four times (undergrad, undergrad transfer, MS, PhD) and gotten acceptances every time. I'd really like to explore how to apply the lessons I've learned in those systems to this one. The biggest thing with graduate admissions is that many decisions are made before anyone submits an application. My process for getting into my current PhD program went something like this:
- Contact the program manager for the PhD I was interested in. Introduce self. Ask questions about the program, share some basic metrics and background.
- Contact faculty associated with the program. Learn about research, state of the program, opportunities for research and other work, etc.
- Contact program office to arrange a visit at my expense. Show up with CVs and a nice suit. Shake hands, meet administrators, meet faculty. Let them get to know my research and academic interests, motivations, relevant skillsets, accomplishments, stuff like that. Usually over lunch.
- Find out more info on the application process from administration. What do you look for in applicants? In personal statements? What kind of student are you trying to recruit? What kind of student is successful in your program? Given what I've told you about myself, what kind of opportunities would I have here?
I went home after this and was in communication with my program for the next three months until they got my application and all of its components. I was accepted within a week. They waived the interview because all my meetings with faculty and administration had gone so well. In retrospect, it's clear that they decided they wanted me well before my application was ever read. When you're applying with an undergrad 2.59, this is important. It makes it clear that the GPA is aberrant whereas on a paper application I know that I could have a Nobel Prize on my CV, but no reviewer will ever find out because many will be likely to put my application in the NO pile when they see the GPA and move on. Assuming a computer even allows my app to get to human eyes in the first place considering the undergrad GPA.
My point is, this is the pathway people take who are serious about targeting and getting admission to a graduate program. I'm trying to figure out what the medical school equivalent is and what kind of timeline I should be thinking of to start it.
It's also possible that I have too much free time this summer and am overthinking everything. I'm a virologist and when my cells aren't growing quickly I have a lot of time to sit around and ruminate. Yesterday I sorted through 500 serological pipettes and made them all face the same way, spending the entire time debating whether or not it was worthwhile to lecture my labmates on playing it fast and loose with how they refill the drawers of seros at the biosafety cabinet.
- kennymac Said:
I sort of have the problem that the list of things I'd like to do with my career is probably longer than what's feasible (unless I decide to write off marriage and children). If I had my druthers, the future would include a run in the Epidemiologic Intelligence Service, a tour with Médecins Sans Frontières, and ultimately to be an attending physician with an academic appointment and PI of my own research program. Obviously, given that I'm now 29 and the soonest I'd enter an MD or DO program is ~34, and am going to try to balance this wishlist with having a wife and kids, having everything on my wishlist probably isn't feasible. I really don't view it as a matter of figuring out which things I want more than others. Rather, my goal is to keep my options open and take the best opportunities that come regardless of which path they push me toward, and accept whatever combination of doors those choices open and close. So I while I would say that my preference is probably toward clinical opportunities, I'm keeping my options open and if a research opportunity were to arise that I just can't say no to there's a decent chance that's where I would go and then figure out what clinical options are still in the cards after.
Current pathway is PhD program ==> MD/DO program ==> Residency. A post-doc would probably come after finishing the PhD but before applying to medical school. It's essentially the academic equivalent of doing a residency and would be important if I want to be PI of a research program after med school. Before medical school is where it naturally fits, and that timing allows me to mine my current PI's contacts (which are extensive) for opportunities.
I don’t know the inner dealings of school admissions processes, but it’s more than possible to get into med school with zero correspondence other than your application prior to the interview. Aside from face to face relationships like you developed in your grad school program, you’ll be just another one of the thousands who are applying for the 100-200 spots. If you can meet maybe the dean or someone, that could help you out. Otherwise your fate is determined in most cases by a committee who votes based on your app and interviews. If you can get in with a more influential member, that may be helpful.
It sounds like meeting with any admissions person to discuss your competitiveness would be helpful to your psyche and help you determine how to travel,the remainder of your application path. Being a nontrad, you have some educational/experiential stuff that can benefit you. It’s hard to say how that fits in with what the schools are looking for, but it sounds good for any research heavy school at a minimum to me. Don’t sell yourself short because you have done/learned a lot that the traditional student most likely hasn’t in their undergrad years.
By balance, I only mean that education/research alone may get you in, but don’t neglect leadership opportunities or other longitudinal experiences that can expand your interests and shape who you are even further. I would say that balance is a good thing, but I don’t know everything about the rest of your life to comment on your case. Depending on the school, you don’t want to sound like someone who only lives in a lab and hasn’t seen the sun in awhile. I realize that you do clinical stuff as well so double bonus.