Long time reader, first time poster. Here’s my situation -
Out of undergrad for about 11 years. Was a science major. Completed a masters/teacher education program. Taught for the past 10 years in different education settings. Now I am contemplating applying to medical school.
UG Sci/math/major GPA = 3.00
UG all others GPA = 3.64
UG overall = 3.11
I am now starting my review for the MCAT and I have a good feeling that I can do well. From what I’ve read, a poor GPA can be made up with strong MCAT scores, strong personal statements, and interviews.
I am wary of a post-bacc program because I get the feeling that an admissions committee would see me repeating courses that I should have aced back in school. I’ve looked at local colleges in order to take some upper division science courses to show that I can do the work.
I am not particular about allopathic vs. osteopathic schools; my SO is willing to move wherever (assuming I get in). I was considering trying to apply for Fall 2009 entrance, but I perhaps I could spend more time brushing up on my weak areas and apply for 2010 entrance.
Give it to me straight, doctors - should I even drop my name in the hat with such poor grades? Please be as honest as possible, I need the input!
Your GPA is not THAT bad. There are people on here who have gotten in after having far worse undergrad GPAs (trust me, I’m one of them). So - the GPA itself will not keep you out. A strong MCAT experience will help considerably. So will recent demonstration of good grades. If you got lower than a C in any of the med school pre-reqs, you should retake those courses. If you got a C, there are arguments on both sides of the fence about retaking. You should definitely take some upper level science classes and do well in them.
Assuming you do well on the MCAT and in new coursework, I think you stand a reasonable chance. You will want to be able to explain/demonstrate why you want to change career paths at this point. If you don’t already have some sort of healthcare experience, shadowing, volunteering, etc, those are all things that can improve your application. You don’t HAVE to have all of them, but you need to be able to show that you have given this a lot of thought and fully understand what you are getting yourself into.
If you live close to a medical school or two, it never hurts to make an appointment with an admissions person and see what they would like to see in your application. Some will be very honest with you, some will simply give you stock answers.
Good luck!
Well, haiku575…your GPA may give you some problems, especially in regards to allopathic schools. Yes, a good MCAT will help matters, but I think that you would really need to get a super score. I think that an osteopathic school maybe more forgiving…also, they seem to be a little more nontrad friendly.
I don’t think that you need to undertake a post bacc, but if you retake some of your prereqs and increase your grades, a DO school will figure them in for your science GPA which may rise somewhat.
Best of luck!
Kris
For sure, I don’t expect that your grades will sink you. I say that knowing of several members here who’ve succeeded with lower numbers (notably our Old Man Dave), and as somebody with significantly lower numbers myself.
I think it would definitely behoove you to pile on the science coursework to demonstrate that you can excel in it, and it sounds like you have the confidence to do so.
And by the way - welcome :).
While I agree that DO schools generally are more forgiving of lower GPAs, don’t give up on allopathic schools as out of reach. My original undergrad GPA was 2.78 (BCPM 2.5). Even with a 3.98 in my postbac pre-reqs, I only managed to bring my cumulative GPA up to a 3.19. Granted, I was helped considerably by the fact that I didn’t take any of the pre-reqs the first time around and thus was able to bring my BCPM up to a 3.76. Anyways - the point is not to brag about my postbacc GPA but rather to mention that even with my rather $hitty GPA, I was accepted at all five allopathic schools that I applied to - two of which are pretty well regarded.
Do the best you can to make up for your past transgressions, study hard for your MCAT, and then apply broadly to a wide range of schools.
Thanks for the welcome Adam!
I’ve been looking at taking either some upper-division bio or chemistry classes. I don’t know how it is where you live, but it seems like I’d have to enroll as a full- or part-time student (at the local 4-yr universities) to have access to such classes. I did find one school that offered a biochemistry course at their extension school and I am looking at taking that class. But beyond that, extension courses are limited.
I do currently volunteer at a local hospital, I’ve been there for over a year. I am interested in trying to hook up with a local doctor to shadow and see more aspects of his/her work. How did you all deal with HIPAA and liability issues (if you did the shadowing thing)?
Can I reasonably expect to complete a few science courses now before I apply next year? Or should I give myself more time? That’s more a question that only I can answer - but I’d like your input in how you juggled work, home life, prepping for the MCAT and finally applying.
Thanks again for your responses!
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I’ve been looking at taking either some upper-division bio or chemistry classes.
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I think you gotta-- just because of the chronology. Either take the premed classes over, or if you feel prepared, by all means take the upper division classes. 11 years is too long ago for the major science prep classes to count at most med schools.
I think this actually brings up a very good question that a lot of us who haven’t yet been accepted probably have. Now granted, some people may be hell bent on getting into one of the top 10 research schools, but I’m sure other people such as myself just want to go to a good school.
So what schools should we be applying to in the first place where research and perfect numbers aren’t pretty much a requirement to get accepted? I’m sure this rules out such names as Harvard, Yale, etc. but it’d be good to know what everyone’s idea of a “good non-research” medical school is so those of us who plan to apply have an idea of where to. 
Like most things in my life, I went through the admissions process less than gracefully. I applied late - most of my applications went in on or near the deadlines, my GPA was low - I think 2.92 overall (4.0 postbacc, though, woo!). My committee letter didn’t even go out until mid-December. I did no research, I didn’t shadow, I didn’t volunteer in a hospital setting (though I am a volunteer EMT). I had to withdraw a ton of applications because I was applying so late. So far, I’ve got five interviews, one wait-list and one acceptance (from a brand-name school even). I’m still waiting to hear from the other three schools and I’m wishing I hadn’t withdrawn so many applications.
So I think I can say, with some authority, that the whole process is somewhat arbitrary, and that yes, you have a good chance of making “the cut.” Especially with an over 3.0 UG GPA.
However, I will reiterate what Matt said. Most schools say flat out either on their websites or in the MSAR that they will not accept pre-requisite coursework that was taken more than 5-7 years ago.
Erica
Tim -
Einstein would be a good school for you to look at. They are highly tolerant of non-traditional students, not very research or numbers-oriented and, from what I’ve observed, seem to focus on people who are interesting. I get the impression that Drexel may also be a possibility, though I honestly don’t know much about it. The SUNY schools also fit this bill - but you have better odds at those schools if you are in NY, obviously. Try looking into your state schools.
Erica
Well, part of the reason I ask this question is because I live in Cali and from what I gather, they have a deep-seated dislike for in-state residents.
A friend of mine pointed out that they get more money in tuition for out-of-staters. It wouldn’t surprise me if the reason Cali schools don’t like accepting Cali residents is as simple as them being greedy. I’m not sure whether OOS tuition necessarily translates into more money, since I’m not familiar with the way the government subsidizes the universities for in-state residents, but that’s an entirely different topic anyway.
- Tim Said:
A friend of mine pointed out that they get more money in tuition for out-of-staters. It wouldn't surprise me if the reason Cali schools don't like accepting Cali residents is as simple as them being greedy.
Tim, I think you'll find (from the current MSAR) that two of the UC med schools (Irvine and Davis) take virtually no out of state residents (the couple that they do may be Wiche students), UCSD takes only about 10% out of state, and UCSF about 25%. UCLA takes a few more.
In the current MSAR, the tuition for UC non-residents was $12,245. This is considerably lower than the resident tuition for most other state schools. (Resident tuition was $0. Fees were the same for both resident and non-resident.) I hardly think that this qualifies as "greedy."
Additionally, the UC's screen their applicant pool prior to sending secondaries, thus not getting applicant fees from everyone who applies (unlike most of the rest of the med schools in the country these days).
Cheers,
Judy
Tim,
My understanding on CA was not that the CA schools dislike their own residents, but rather that there are so many resident applicants vs. the number of seats available that it is extremely competitive and a larger number of in-state applicants don’t get accepted compared to other states where residents have preference.
And wow - I can only dream of tuition of ~$12k. I think our tuition this year is somewhere around ~23K for in-state residents at my state school (and most of the state schools in Ohio are around that). Granted, the cost of living in Cali probably makes up for it, so I guess it all evens out.
Well, I’ll have to say Judy, those numbers do make it seem quite a bit more optimistic than the picture that was painted for me previously. I suppose that’ll happen though if one lurks at SDN, heh. I wonder how many people who go to UCSF say they would go there again though. I’m aware UCSF is an outstanding medical school, but I’ve been to SF quite a bit on vacation, and that city just seems way too hectic (and run down in a lot of parts) for me to ever think living there would be worth it. Not that medical school or any big metro isn’t hectic, but anyone who’s been to SF will know what I mean I’m sure.
Emerg, I’m not necessarily convinced Cali is as expensive as everyone makes it out to be, especially given how expensive the metros in some places are. You’d be surprised at how cheap rent is here depending on where you go. Normal rent for a nice one bedroom apartment in my city (Redding, northern Cali) is only $600. Even my uncle, who lives in Orange county which is one of the more expensive counties in southern Cali, only pays $1,000 for a one bedroom apartment. In contrast, I used to talk to someone who lived in New York who said the average price for a one bedroom apartment in the city was $2,500.
Now, I don’t know if it really is that expensive or not, but I do know for sure that rent here ranges between $500-1000 depending on area, so naw it’s not that bad. I could stand for the gas prices to go down a bit though. 
- Skeeter Said:
So I think I can say, with some authority, that the whole process is somewhat arbitrary, and that yes, you have a good chance of making "the cut." Especially with an over 3.0 UG GPA.
However, I will reiterate what Matt said. Most schools say flat out either on their websites or in the MSAR that they will not accept pre-requisite coursework that was taken more than 5-7 years ago.
Erica
That's excellent, Erica
.Do you have any thoughts on what made you stand out the most? How long was your post-bacc (FT/PT)?
I feel like such a loser…I interviewed at WVSOM and got waitlisted there, too. Though I’m told I’m a “great interview”, there must be something I’m lacking to get that last little bit to push me over into an acceptance. My advisor is telling me not to give up now that I’ve come this far, but it’s really hard to look forward to another year of abject poverty and no direction. I’m not sure if doing a Special Masters is the solution either, because I could go get a MS in Physiology and STILL not get into med school. WHat can you do w/ a MS in Physiology??? The application dates for all the post-baccs have passed, and I’m not eligible for any of those that automatically generate admissions upon completion-I’m a caucasian male. And now its time to start the admissions circus again for next year, and I haven’t done anything that could be construed as strengthening my application, except teach a class. The further I go, the more confused and depressed I get…
My suggestion would be to call the schools and talk with an admissions officer. Did you apply early, did you apply late? Try to find out.
Don’t give up. I know that this is frustrating but if this is what you want to do you need to be strong and never give up.
- Tim Said:
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Emerg, I'm not necessarily convinced Cali is as expensive as everyone makes it out to be, especially given how expensive the metros in some places are. You'd be surprised at how cheap rent is here depending on where you go...
1) I love San Francisco. I actually don't know what you mean by "hectic" since I think of it as pretty low-key as major metropolitan centers go, but if you want sedate you can live out in the Sunset District out towards the ocean from UCSF.
2) The rent in many parts of San Francisco and many parts of West LA rivals that of any metro area in the US including NYC. Redding and Orange County might be expensive compared to Turlock. California is a nation-sized state in terms of economy, population, and diversity.
3) I echo everything Judy Colwell says about UC admissions.