So today I’ve really started to question the value of a lot of the information these pre-med advisors are giving out. I realize not all advisors will be good (or bad for that matter), but it seems like the amount of misinformation that can be spread out is dangerous.
I just got done with a pre-med advisor who basically told me majoring in a non-science degree is a bad idea because all science is applied (larf) and therefore its better preparation for medical school, taking pre-reqs at a CC is out of the question regardless of circumstances, and research is virtually a requirement and even if someone has no interest in trying out research then they should do so anyway because its whats expected. I was also told not to worry about the fact that physician salaries have been declining every year for decades since currently they still make a lot. Right, because considering the future is stupid, we should only focus on the present just like with the NINJA loans they gave out in real estate…that’s a prime example of what happens when you don’t consider the future in decision-making. Lastly, I was told taking out any amount of debt for medical school is ok since it’ll be a “small” amount compared to what I’ll be making. When has 150-300K of debt ever been a small figure for a physician? That’s a $3,000/mo loan payment. Hell, by the time you pay it off it’ll be 400-500K after interest.
I can’t even express how completely disgusted I am with the entire process at this point. If there’s people like this out there in appreciable numbers, who give out this kind of information, the only advice I can offer you guys at this point is be careful of everything you’re told and cross-reference it to make sure its BS or not.
I guess I should be thankful for the fact I’m in paramedic school…they didn’t make me jump through any hoops, dance like a monkey, roll over and sit up or any kind of BS to get accepted, they simply tested me on academic skills that were essential to doing well in the program, asked about my schedule and personal life enough to get an idea of whether its a good fit for me or not, and then sent me the contract to sign. Made a hell of a lot more sense.
Hi Tim:
That’s why it’s good to research on your own. The OPM website has a considerable amount of helpful information and SDN is very helpful as well. The pre-med advisor you met with may not have even researched the issue enough to be able provide substantive advice. I’ve learned much from this site and others as I move along - just do your homework.
BTW - getting into respiratory school at our CC was a bit more trying (had to interview, couldn’t have below a certain GPA, etc.). Trying to get into the nursing program isn’t anything to sneeze at either.
- lpressley130 Said:
That's why it's good to research on your own. The OPM website has a considerable amount of helpful information and SDN is very helpful as well. The pre-med advisor you met with may not have even researched the issue enough to be able provide substantive advice. I've learned much from this site and others as I move along - just do your homework.
BTW - getting into respiratory school at our CC was a bit more trying (had to interview, couldn't have below a certain GPA, etc.). Trying to get into the nursing program isn't anything to sneeze at either.
Oh trust me, I know that it's hard to get into other professions and schools than med school too, although as far as nursing school goes that's another pet peeve of mine which I'm not going to get into. Having a lottery system for letting people in, which seems to be the case at most CC nursing programs, is just simply atrocious. I despise any program that may admit someone with say a 2.7 GPA and only wants the paycheck over someone with a 3.4 GPA who wants to do patient care simply due to luck. Anyway, I agree, there are far better resources out there than pre-med advisors these days. I shouldn't have wasted my time making an appointment in the first place...figured since UCD has pre-med advising why not. I forgot the fact that, like everything else here, its probably the lowest quality imaginable.
Really there are nursing programs that run off of a lottery? Wow. The ones I had checked into a few years ago ran off of the top “x” amount of people made it in. When that number was reached no more got in. So the difference between getting in and not was a 3.78 and 3.76 for the one specific program I was looking at that year.
- BOOBS Said:
Well, I realize it puts people at a disadvantage if they have a mangled GPA from being "young and care free" or whatever the case may be, but honestly that's how it should be. The people with the best application should get accepted to the program. But yep, absolutely there are lottery-determined RN programs...just off the top of my head here I think Solano Community College does that, Shasta College, American River College, etc. etc. I don't know if it's a phenomenon for this area or if its like that for a lot of nursing programs nation-wide, but as long as they meet the basic pre-reqs, someone who just wants to make a crapload of money as a nurse and not give a damn about her job who barely scraped by with a bunch of C's and a couple B's has just as much chance of getting in as someone who aced all her classes and wants to be the best damn nurse she can be. Personally, I think every single health care profession, be it paramedic, X-ray tech, nurse, whatever should have an application process where the most well-qualified applicants get in...this lottery system is a bunch of BS and is a great reason as to why a lot of nurses (at least out here) are either incompetent or they don't care about their job because they're just in it for the money. I'm not ragging on nurses by any means, there's idiots in any profession and there's quite a bit of EMTs like that for the same reason...when you make it possible for /anyone/ to become an EMT, nurse, etc. with a lottery system or whatever the case may be, inevitably quality gets sacrificed.
I had gotten my P-EMT lic. right out of high school (98), I do not know how that will actually be to my advantage, being a medic? I have been told, by Med schools on more than one occasion, that RN is more appealing on an app. wish I would have done that instead…Oh well, still a great experience!!
I had a very similar experience a couple of years ago, and it was quite discouraging. There’s only one medical school in my state, so I made an appointment to visir with the advisor there. He asked me where I completely my undergrad, and when I told him, he gave me a funny look. He said (and I quote), “in all my years here, no one from your school has ever been accepted. I honestly don’t think you’ll stand much of a chance. Have you ever considered being a science teacher?” (My first degree is in education.)
I was very discouraged and almost gave up. I checked back with my undergraduate school and talked to the department head to get more information as to why this would be the case. He also gave me a funny look and then pulled up a nice long list of students from that college that were CURRENTLY in attendance at the school where I met with the advisor. These students all got great MCAT scores and were easy admissions into the local medical school. I even contacted a few of these med students on the list, and they all told me the advisors there are off their rockers.
For what it’s worth… 
Good luck!
Kara
In Washington State there are some colleges who hold a lottery. Some who take the top percent. I say both are stupid without an interview. I swear it’s more competitive getting into Nursing School vs. Med School. Tee hee.
Tim,
I’ll tell you a quick story.
I was a mechanical engineering major and tried to do very well in all my classes so that the overal GPA looked good, however I didn’t do very well in my premedical prereqs. When I say this, I really mean that I got C’s in organic II, chem I, and Bio II.
I am now graduated with a 3.46 major GPA, talked to the premed advisor, and he happened to tell me that pretty much all the classes that I took for my engineering degree are included in the science GPA. This simply means that although I didn’t do well in those particular courses, I am still in a very good position GPA-wise, where as If I would not have studied engineering but, say hospitality, I would be in a terrible postion because all the science courses that I would have taken are the ones where I did bad on; hense the advantage of having selecting a science degree.
On the other hand, I probably did bad in those classes because the load was very high, while If I would have been studying something not nearly as hard as mechanical engineering I probably would have done better in the premed courses.
In conclusion, if you are absolutely sure that you can pull off A’s in all the premed courses (DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THEIR DIFFICULTY), then I would advise you a non-science degree; also because you will have WAY more time, and can probably put some science courses, not only the requirements. However if you don’t know if you can do it, or are unconfortable with school because you’ve been out of the game for a while, then do a science degree and put yourself to the limit how I did; just get good grades.
On Research:
Schools don’t only look for people that look like they could be good physicians, but also for someone that shows an interest for science, and research is a way of showing that you care.
You don’t even have to like research but once you start working on your premed you will probably end up doing some, just because is a good way of earning money. Figure that they pay you $9/hr. and let you work very flexibly 10-20 hrs per week!!! who won’t take that? you know that you wouldn’t be making anything otherwise because of the tight schedule at school, and trust me, once you start doing research you will get hooked. It is actually cool.
All right, if you need anything else just contact me,
good luck.
OA
oardila -
Are you SURE about your ME classes being included in the BCPM GPA? I am also an ME, and according to the 2009 AMCAS instruction manual, engineering classes are not part of the BCPM (page 53 tells you that in the following lists, courses in categories counting towards BCPM are labeled as such. The engineering classes on pg 55 do not say BCPM.) The link is below for your info.
http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/amcas2 009instru…
It looks like thermodynamics does get included in Chemistry, but all your statics, dynamics, machine design, fluids, etc., I don’t think count as science. . .I don’t know how to interpret stuff like Thermal Fluids Lab.
(FWIW - I hope you are right because my ME GPA is also better than my straight science GPA. . .I haven’t asked my advisor about this, I’m just going off what I read).
For AMCAS, they are very clear about which engineering courses might be counted in the science gpa. Most cannot be.
Cheers,
Judy
Well Tim, UCD is the school that I have been looking at for my Pre-Med and Medical School. I know someone who went throught the MEdical Management program and the Med program. I’ve been trying to get ahold of them to get their experiences and suggestions to begin this journey. I would say that you shouldn;t give up, if it is really important to you to become doctor, keep going after it.
Kind of belated since this is a month later but I’ve been busy and was browsing the old threads while eating breakfast.
My poor experience with this pre-med advisor didn’t discourage me from considering med school in the future, on the contrary, it just made me decide that I’m not going to seek the advise of pre-med advisors anymore since I can get advice that’s actually useful and beneficial on here and it doesn’t require an appointment.
I’m still on the fence as it is anyway because I have very strong reservations about putting my girlfriend/future wife through me being in school for another 7 years since as it is me doing both P-school and UCD at the same time has been pretty rough on both of us.
Oh, and I probably wouldn’t apply to UC Davis for med school just FYI. The school’s “support” for its students is terrible. Maybe their med school is different, but based off what I’ve seen for undergrad, you could not pay me to go back to school there for another degree. Don’t even get me started on the professors.