Hello, good people of OPM. I would appreciate your opinion on what I should do regarding application timing.
Here are the facts.
I am 38. I graduated in 1994, ~3.2 undergrad at a top university, Literature degree. I took a number of science classes but was a mediocre student. Science grades include one C (or maybe C-).
I had a relatively successful career in an unrelated field until I quit to return to school in 2010.
As an undergrad, I worked as a neurology lab tech and also did independent biology research.
Currently I am a post-bacc with a 3.97 science GPA. I have completed:
Intro bio & Lab
Gen chem & Lab
Physics I & Lab
Organic Chem I & Lab
Currently I am taking:
Organic 2 (no lab)
Physics 2 & Lab
I am volunteering on a clinical research project on pain management and also volunteer for a hospital, Red Cross, school post-bacc society.
I plan on studying for the MCAT full-time for about 7 to 8 weeks, from end of classes in May to test date in mid-July.
I have/will have many strong recommendation letters and evaluations and a strong committee letter.
My questions:
A. It appears that courses older than 10 years are not usable. Do the grades count for anything except to build a narrative?
B. Do my undergrad activities count for anything or is it assumed I’ve forgotten all bench research knowledge?
C. The Real Question: Do I go ahead with #6 and take the MCAT and apply, or do I wait another year so that I can take Orgo 2 Lab, Calc, Stats, Biochem, and Genetics? I feel that these classes would help my understanding on the MCAT.
If I apply now and am accepted, I am 39 when I matriculate. If I wait, I will be 40. Some of you may understand that I have some strong but perhaps unreasonable feelings about applying as soon as possible.
Although I have some good recommendations, if I wait, I will have been able to co-author at least 1, possibly 3 studies, and can pursue a summertime research oppty and obtain another recommendation (with luck) from a rigorous ER volunteer program.
How late can I send in an additional recommendation or evidence of a coauthored article?
If I wait, I will completely run out of money and will start med school with nothing.
How did you make your decisions? I can’t seem to wade through anything logically, and my emotions waver from week to week.
Thanks so much for your help. I am sorry for the long post.
You NEED the orgo 2 lab to apply, so I don’t see how you can apply this summer.
Plus, if you take the MCAT in mid-July, that puts you at applying pretty late in the application cycle, which is not what you want to do. You want to apply as soon as possible, i.e, in June. This is the advice I have gotten from very reliable sources, and what I plan to do when I apply in the summer of 2012.
In terms of taking the extra courses, I’m not sure that these will help you with the MCAT, but they will help with your application, and showing the ADCOMS that you can handle upper-division science courses.
Running out of money is, of course, an issue. But as I said, you absolutely need that orgo 2 lab to apply, so I don’t think you would even be considered for admission without that.
It seems that you are in a formal post-bac program; have you talked to your advisor? That would also be another place to seek advice on your situation.
Hope this helps. Best wishes to you! Keep us posted on your progress.
This is perhaps a slightly different perspective than Terra’s.
First of all, grades from undergrad will count but most schools do loos at trends so post bacc will be key.
I wouldn’t worry about your bench research from undergrad. First many schools don’t worry about research experience and you have current clinical research.
Now for the somewhat alterante view.
You could do your orgo lab while in the application cycle.
Also, I wrote the MCAT in late July but made sure my application was submitted earlier (early June).
Two cautionary notes though:
I had already completed ALL my pre-reqs plus numerous advanced bio courses
It was a very nerve wracking experience writing the MCAT after submitting my applications. FUD big time set it to the point where I even rebooked another MCAT writing date for Sept (talked myself out of that route as I wouldn’t have had any more time to study and resigned myself to reapplying in next year’s cycle if my MCAT was really bad) But FUD severely slowed down my processing of secondary applications. Secondary applications are A LOT of work and critical to a successful application!
Now I was successful - MCAT 31R which was decent and I will be starting at KCUMB (DO) in August at the age of 45.
Can’t tell you what to do, but while the later application worked for me, it was stressful and I already had everything else in place in terms of course work.
BTW - some schools require what might be considered a specific upper level course (eg. KCUMB - genetics). So do your research into the schools you want to apply to.
The advisor for my post-bacc program left during the summer, so I have been looking around for advice from others to supplement the new advisor’s. I did have some contrary information re: prereqs–my undergrad pre-health office (as well as lag-year post-baccs) said that it was OK to indicate on my application that I would be taking Orgo 2 lab and other prereqs (such as calc) during my lag year. Lorien–what is the source for your info? It would make the decision for me, as you indicate, if it were true! I also noted that some schools do not require Orgo 2 lab–not that I am targeting them in any way–but hopefully this indicates that this lab is less essential than the other classes I’ve finished.
I guess I really want to hear that it’s OK to apply in late July. Childish, I know. I did plan on opening my app in June. I have a friend (much younger) who said to disregard warnings to apply early based on her good experiences, but she has a markedly different profile than I do.
I did have some contrary information re: prereqs--my undergrad pre-health office (as well as lag-year post-baccs) said that it was OK to indicate on my application that I would be taking Orgo 2 lab and other prereqs (such as calc) during my lag year. Lorien--what is the source for your info? It would make the decision for me, as you indicate, if it were true! I also noted that some schools do not require Orgo 2 lab--not that I am targeting them in any way--but hopefully this indicates that this lab is less essential than the other classes I've finished.
Technically, most medical schools require you have the prereqs done prior to matriculating. However, in practical terms most adcoms want to see the prereqs completed prior to applying. It will be flag on your application that could have no to little negative impact.
mesclun Said:
I guess I really want to hear that it's OK to apply in late July. :-( Childish, I know. I did plan on opening my app in June. I have a friend (much younger) who said to disregard warnings to apply early based on her good experiences, but she has a markedly different profile than I do.
Yes you can take and submit an MCAT in late July but again it puts you slightly behind the curve. It likely has little to no impact
I am not a big fan of late MCAT's and Applications but with your financial concerns and timing your are right on the cusp. Here are two previous posting I had on the subject which may give you some food for thought but get FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) about it.
If you do plan to take orgo 2 during the summer, that would be OK – it sounded to me like you were not planning to take it at all if you were applying this summer, so I apologize for my confusion. If that is the case, I agree with the other posters that you are likely in a good position to apply this summer.
If I may, my only concern would be the time dedicated to the MCAT study. Not sure that 8 weeks would do it. You have a strong science GPA so I am assuming science is your thing. Still I have seen A students with 4.0 in the sciences bomb the MCAT. The MCAT tests knowledge sure, but it is nothing like the usual exams you have in class.
Other than that, I second posters who say you can take you Orgo 2 lab during the glide year. You have to complete your pre-reqs prior to matriculation. Now most applicants complete them, so if you decide not to complete your pre-reqs I’d say it is OK assuming a good GPA, and a strong MCAT.
I agree that you’re probably better off delaying another year if you can find a way to make it work financially. Don’t underestimate the impact a good showing on your first try on the MCAT will make. Take the extra time to finish your pre-reqs and prepare well for the MCAT. As for whether or not to take organic labs, it’s highly variable. I was correctly advised NOT to take either org I or II labs because I already had a degree and the schools I was considering did not require those labs. The labs were very time consuming and would have delayed my application to the next cycle. If you don’t have an advisor right now, contact the schools you are considering and find out their specific requirements for post-bacc applicants. Now would probably be a good time. Most schools are at or near the end of the interviewing cycle and would have time to talk to you.
You NEED the orgo 2 lab to apply, so I don't see how you can apply this summer.
Plus, if you take the MCAT in mid-July, that puts you at applying pretty late in the application cycle, which is not what you want to do. You want to apply as soon as possible, i.e, in June. This is the advice I have gotten from very reliable sources, and what I plan to do when I apply in the summer of 2012.
In terms of taking the extra courses, I'm not sure that these will help you with the MCAT, but they will help with your application, and showing the ADCOMS that you can handle upper-division science courses.
Running out of money is, of course, an issue. But as I said, you absolutely need that orgo 2 lab to apply, so I don't think you would even be considered for admission without that.
It seems that you are in a formal post-bac program; have you talked to your advisor? That would also be another place to seek advice on your situation.
Hope this helps. Best wishes to you! Keep us posted on your progress.
- Lorien
Not to disagree, but you do not NEED the Orgo to apply. You need it to matriculate, and depending on the school, you need it either prior to actual matriculation, or June prior to matriculation. However, you do want much of your course work finished prior to taking the MCAT. As I mentioned in another post, apply in June, take the MCAT sometime prior to mid-August (take it when you are most well-prepared).
Thank you everyone! I really appreciate it. May I ask another question?
Has anyone taken Orgo 2 Lab and studied for the MCAT simultaneously? I was working out my schedule and it doesn’t look pretty wrt upper-level bio classes unless I can get the lab out of the way before the fall semester.
I’m suspecting it’s a no-no but I wanted to see if anyone had this kind of experience, or basically what else people were doing as they studied for the MCAT.
I was studying for MCAT’s during my last full semester: Orgo Chem (without lab), 2nd semester Bio and Physics with Lab, US health care system. It wasn’t pretty - I did not spend a lot of time weekly on prep. Then had a couple of weeks with just Orgo II lab while finishing my MCAT study, and that seemed very do-able…but consider what I was doing before!
Depends on the schedule for the ochem 2 lab. Treat the MCAT studying like you would a 3-credit, hard science class and act accordingly.
I would go a step a further and suggest that since MCAT tends to be as important if not more so for nontrads, particularly for those who have "grade baggage" from original undergraduate work, I would consider it a 6 credits worth of work and needs to be a primary focus for students. There is alot, a hell of alot riding on a single exam. I would minimize the risk of getting a low MCAT score as much as possible.
Having said all that I think that a typical Ochem Lab II is not that bad with prepping for the MCAT if that is all you are doing. However, remember that Ochem Lab is like a full day in lab and full day to write the reports. Keep that in your equation for time planning
+1 for applying this year if you think you are ready. I took the MCAT in late July (but had already filled out and submitted AMCAS in June) and had a very successful cycle. However if you are not consistently able to get MCAT scores that you would be happy with on the AMCAS practice tests then maybe hold off. I only had 2 dedicated months to study for the MCAT after class was over but I seemed to have good testing skills with it. My first practice test was a 27 and my real test was a 30 so I only raised 3 points but I started out from an ok spot.
In my opinion 1 unfinished lab would not be an issue at most schools (just do your homework and make sure that they say complete before matriculation and not application so you don’t waste your money/time applying). Good luck and please let us know your decision!
Thank you. All your input is very useful. Thinking of it like a class is also great.
Your input has made me realize I should take a hiatus from volunteering and research to save those 20 hrs/wk for studying. I think I will indeed take Orgo 2 Lab this summer–it will provide structure for me that is at least a little topical for the MCAT–I’m awful without structure. More to come as I know it! Thank you!
As you plan on applying soon, rather than take a hiatus from volunteering perhaps you could cut back your hours so you’re still an active volunteer (this would depend on how much volunteer work you have accumulated - if you have 5 years of continuous volunteer work, a hiatus won’t really matter. But if you only have 12 months …). Just a thought.
hi all, i am in a somewhat similar situation to the original poster. BA in chemistry from a top school back in 1994. i was pre-med, completed all of the pre-reqs and had planned on going to med school but…other things just got in the way. after a very brief career as a pro athlete, i ended up in the investment business and that’s what i’ve been doing ever since. my only medical experience has been in caring for my parents and older relatives and obtaining a wilderness first responder certification (very similar to EMT). i’ve always remained deeply interested in medicine and probably have annoyed the heck out of every dr that my wife and i have seen (we have 2 boys under age 3) with questions about what exactly this means, or how exactly does that work. my science gpa was fine but nothing to write home about.
in any case, here are my questions: should i just go ahead and take the MCAT in august and apply this year or re-take all the pre-reqs and apply next yr? there is a 1-yr career changers post-bach program about 45 min. away from where i live. it starts at the end of may. also, with respect to academic recommendations, mine are going to pretty darn dated unless i retake some classes. from searching around this site, it appears that there is no consensus on how long is too long ago for pre-reqs to count.
suggestions appreciated. thank you to all on this site. lots of great information and some very inspirational stories.
Childish, I know. I did plan on opening my app in June. I have a friend (much younger) who said to disregard warnings to apply early based on her good experiences, but she has a markedly different profile than I do.