Fedaykin's Intro Post

Nontraditional Premed Discussion
1

Hey all. I found this site when someone recommended it to me, and it looks like I might’ve finally found the informal resource I’ve been looking for- a sounding board as I try to figure out how the heck to get into med school. So I thought I’d post an introduction.


My undergraduate years kinda sucked. I had some issues (death of a friend, coming out, etc) that distracted from academics, nevermind the fact that it took me two schools, five majors, and six academic advisors to find where I belonged. Add in a dose of not being mature enough to handle college from ages 18-22, and the result isn’t particularly pretty: I graduated with a 2.92 overall GPA, which is reduced to a 2.70 when you incorporate the GPA from the school I started my undergrad work at. Oh, and for extra fun, I don’t have my prerequisites done. Whoopee.


Went out, got a job in education, hated it. Went back to graduate school, got into a traditional academic MS program (Biomedical Science). I’m approaching halfway through that. Current GPA is a 3.58, when I graduate it’ll likely be around a 3.8 to 3.9. Or as I like to call it, the accurate reflection of my intelligence and abilities. Aside: I don’t get what this crap I always hear about “grade inflation” in graduate school is. My classes are way harder than my undergrad classes were. I’m just working a hell of a lot harder and managing my responsibilities better.


So the current plan looks something like this:


Crappy GPA/Unfinished Pre-reqs => ??? => US-based Allopathic Program


With a whole lotta unknowns in the middle.


I have some prerequisites, so most post-bac programs I’ve contacted say they can’t help me. I don’t have all my pre-reqs, so special Master’s programs say they can’t help me.


I’ve considered getting a PhD after my MS (I’ll have a foot in the door at my current school), and I’ve heard that a PhD can go a good way to demonstrating competency gained since undergraduate years. Furthermore, I’m in the graduate division of a major medical school (as would be the PhD), so I’d be doing work that’s extermely relevant to a career in medicine. I could also accumulate four to five years of shadowing in that time. But it’s also an additional 5 years between now any my goal, so I’m unsure how good a strategic move that is.


Also, as per my understanding, even the prerequisites I DO have completed wouldn’t be worth the paper my transcripts are printed on, as they’d be 10 years or more out of date. My undergraduate years were 2003 - 2008.


I do have some things going for me. I’ve been accumulating clinical shadowing in my free time. I volunteer in a few settings with patient interaction: phone banking for a crisis intervention hotline, EMT, AIDS clinic, few others. I’m not too worried about the MCATs as well. I’ve never taken a standardized exam and tested below the 99th percentile- SATs, ACTs, MATs, GREs (subject and general). So I reasonably expect to be able to score a minimum of 35 with proper preparation.


I found acceptance rate data sorted by MCAT scores and GPA published by the AAMC for all US-based MD programs from 2007 to 2009, and at my current GPA and getting mid-30 MCAT scores, I have a 15-20% chance of acceptance; 90 out of 469 students. So it can be done. I just want to figure out how. There can’t be THAT many applicants with uncles on ADCOMs who didn’t recuse themselves. It’s just a huge question of:

  • How do I finish my requirements?
  • How do I remediate my GPA?
  • If I'm not doing a PhD after my MS, what AM I going to do?


Hooboy, I think that's enough for my first post. Thanks in advance for any feedback, and take care!
2

Well, in terms of “remediating” your GPA, as you put it, your undergrad years are over and done with. What you can do – and have already done in your MS program – is show great improvement. That is key. So keep it up!


As far as finishing your requirements goes, there is absolutely no need to do some sort of formal program (i.e., a formal post-bac). You do what is often called an informal or “DIY” post-bac, where you simply enroll in a university and take the pre-requisites that way. You can either enroll as a non-degree-seeking student, or as a degree-seeking student and not finish the degree. At some schools, it’s hard to get the classes you want as a non-degree-seeking student, so that’s why some people enroll with a degree, and then just don’t finish it. The important thing again here is to maintain a very high GPA, to show improvement over your initial undergrad years. (From what I understand, this informal post-bac GPA will be looked at separately from your initial undergrad GPA, so it won’t technically boost your undergrad GPA, although it will boost your overall GPA, obviously.)


Regarding the PhD program, I wouldn’t recommend doing that unless you really want a PhD (which it doesn’t sound like you’re too excited about, if I’m reading your post correctly). As you said, it will postpone your going the medical school route by several years, and render some of your pre-reqs unusable. You will have already done a MS program and (hopefully) shown your ability to excel at upper-level courses. If you already had a PhD and had used it for several years, that would be one thing. But I don’t think getting a PhD is the right route to go just to impress ADCOMS. That’s just my opinion; others may think differently here.


So what will you do with yourself if you don’t do a PhD? You can do an informal/DIY post-bac program, study your butt off for the MCAT (getting a 35 is tougher than you make it out to be, in my opinion), continue shadowing and volunteering, try to get some leadership experience (ADCOMS favorably look at this type of experience as well).


Those are my thoughts. Best wishes to you. Keep us posted on your progress!



3
  • terra_incognita Said:
Well, in terms of "remediating" your GPA, as you put it, your undergrad years are over and done with. What you can do -- and have already done in your MS program -- is show great improvement. That is key. So keep it up!



Thanks!

  • terra_incognita Said:
As far as finishing your requirements goes, there is absolutely no need to do some sort of formal program (i.e., a formal post-bac). You do what is often called an informal or "DIY" post-bac, where you simply enroll in a university and take the pre-requisites that way. You can either enroll as a non-degree-seeking student, or as a degree-seeking student and not finish the degree. At some schools, it's hard to get the classes you want as a non-degree-seeking student, so that's why some people enroll with a degree, and then just don't finish it. The important thing again here is to maintain a very high GPA, to show improvement over your initial undergrad years. (From what I understand, this informal post-bac GPA will be looked at separately from your initial undergrad GPA, so it won't technically boost your undergrad GPA, although it will boost your overall GPA, obviously.)



This is what I'm curious about. My main question is how do I receive financial aid in this process? My undergrad work was mostly paid for by money my parents had saved. Both my tuition and living expenses are being paid for by loans, which I believe I don't qualify for unless I matriculate in a degree program. As for enrolling in a degree program, would I be applying to a school that allows second bachelor's degrees?

Regarding the PhD program, I wouldn't recommend doing that unless you really want a PhD (which it doesn't sound like you're too excited about, if I'm reading your post correctly). As you said, it will postpone your going the medical school route by several years, and render some of your pre-reqs unusable. You will have already done a MS program and (hopefully) shown your ability to excel at upper-level courses. If you already had a PhD and had used it for several years, that would be one thing. But I don't think getting a PhD is the right route to go just to impress ADCOMS. That's just my opinion; others may think differently here.

I'm interested if you (or anyone) knows about how GPA shows up on AMCAS. I'd always been under the impression that post-bac or SMP work gets averaged into your undergrad GPA, but your post gives me the impression otherwise. Let's ignore my missing prerequisites for a moment. If I were to just "take a few classes" (quantify that how you will), would graduate or undergraduate classes look better? I always found it rather inane that graduate coursework wouldn't budge an undergrad GPA, but undergraduate coursework would. This would imply the graduate level Immunology course I took (and got an A for) doesn't affect how my undergraduate GPA looks. Yet, it I enrolled at a local university and took undergraduate immonology, and predictably earned an A, that would affect it.

  • terra_incognita Said:
So what will you do with yourself if you don't do a PhD?



I'm actually really interested in a PhD, though I guess the tone of voice was lost in the echo of the internet. I'd love to be a research-active physician. But at the present I'm 26 and don't anticipate being in medical school before 30, count up internship, residency, fellowships... and I'm unlikely to be practicing in the specialty I want before 40. I'm leary about pushing the entire process another 4 to 5 years, regardless of how much I want a PhD (I want an MD much, much more). I'm not looking to go into medicine for the money. But at the same time, I do hope to reach the profitable stage of my career at an age younger than most people are starting to think about retirement. I'm engaged and want to have a family. So while I would love to get a PhD, I'm just not sure I can justify the time commitment it in the flowchart if that time could be better spent elsewhere.

Also, to be honest, it's also something of a safety move. I admit that with my cum GPA, I may never get into medical school. I'm leary to pass up a chance to get into a really cool PhD program for something else that might be a pipedream.

  • terra_incognita Said:
You can do an informal/DIY post-bac program, study your butt off for the MCAT (getting a 35 is tougher than you make it out to be, in my opinion), continue shadowing and volunteering, try to get some leadership experience (ADCOMS favorably look at this type of experience as well).



This is one thing I've been wondering about. I have tons of community service, a lot of it in direct patient care. I have shadowing. And I also have a lot of leadership experience... but most of it involves my church (a well-known extremely liberal one), and for BLGT organizations. I have tons of experience working in administrative and executive roles. But I've always been told my med students at my university that the political orientation is extremely conservative. I've wondered if openly discussing my extensive work spent running BLGT student groups and events would be unhelpful.

  • terra_incognita Said:
Those are my thoughts. Best wishes to you. Keep us posted on your progress!



Thanks a mil!
4

Welcome to OPM, you are among kindred spirits here. To begin with, you need to keep the past in the past by not focusing on your past GPA. There is nothing you can do about it as it will always be there and is a part of who you are.


You need to show the adcoms that you can handle upper level science courses. That being said, you more than likely need to re-do the pre-reqs either through a formal or informal post bacc. Regarding the PhD, what would it be in? Most medical schools, if you do a dual program with a PhD they usually pay you a stipend and do not charge tuition, something to look into and something to think about regarding doing the PhD after your first 2 years of medical school rather than right now.


Finally, as it is well said here in OPM,this is a marathon and not a sprint.


Good luck

5

Take a look at how your grade summary will look in AMCAS (similar in AACOMAS). I tried tp attach the actual section of the application but couldn’t figure out how to insert it. Anyway, here is the general breakdown by level of schooling:

  • High School

  • Freshman

  • Sophmore

  • Junior

  • Senior

  • Postbaccalaureate Undergraduate

  • Cummulative Undergraduate

  • Graduate


    In addition, your GPA / hours for each line is broken into BCPM (biology, chemistry, physics, math) and AO (all other) as well as giving a total.


    You enter each course individually and categorize it (subject and undergraduate year/postbacc/graduate). The above table is what gets spit out.


    AMCAS staff then verify everything you put in against transcripts and if necessary contact your school to discuss credit weights etc.


    Hope this helps.



6

One difference in AACOMAS is that there is an overall GPA reported that includes graduate courses (same for overall science GPA).


Regarding your volunteer work, probably really depends on the institution how much that will help you. Generally I think the role and leadership nature of it is considered more than the organization itself.


Kate

7

You definitely have a shot at med school. There are several of us on here who have gotten into very good med schools with original ugrad GPA’s of <3.0. As mentioned above, med schools WILL see a separate GPA for post-bacc work as well as an overall cum GPA. As long as you have a strong upward trend and recent coursework, you should be fine. Don’t buy into the traditional pre-med hysteria of not being able to get into med school with less than a certain GPA.


If you didn’t borrow any money for your original undergrad, you should be able to enroll as a degree seeking student and obtain financial aid. You do not need to complete the second degree, but enrolling as degree seeking tends to give you an advantage when registering for classes. I don’t think that a PhD would give you any substantial advantage over just completing your pre-reqs and some upper level course work.


As to your GLBT work - that’s going to be med school dependent. Legally, they can’t discriminate based on those grounds, but as you mentioned, some med schools are rather conservative. My med school had a pretty strong GLBT group and a number of student leaders who were open about their orientation. There were several GLBT faculty members as well. I would tend to argue that you shouldn’t hide it - it’s part of who you are. Do you really want to go to a school where you won’t feel comfortable being yourself? Med school is difficult enough without feeling like you aren’t accepted for who you are.


Hope this helps . . .