I am not a whiner by nature, but honestly…I just wonder if this is a complete pipe dream for me. I have wanted to be a doctor since I started school…maybe 3rd grade…my life took some unusual turns however, coupled with my parent’s wanting something else for me…engineering. I attended Georgia Tech for 2 years and hated it. I was also very immature for most of my 20’s and even into my 30’s. I worked in a hospital for 9 years to put myself through school/put food on the table and lost direction in my life. In 2000 I was arrested for calling in scripts (they count each script as an individual felony count) I was charged with 6 counts. I straighted my act up briefly…4months and then slipped due to a bad choice in friendship. I was charged with possession of CIII and some other prescription drugs (Lortab 10, Soma, some type of high blood pressure medicine and something else…which is crazy, because I didn’t have either of the last two on me…they aren’t drugs that you would abuse)! Anyway, I wasn’t in any position to debate the situation, so I just let my attorney make a deal for me on my, by now 9 felony counts. I got credit for time served…two weeks…probation…5 years…off in 2.5 years…paid my fines and everything. Now I have a hard time getting a job at McDonald’s, even though I am a Computer Programmer and Web/Graphic designer…also a Network Analyst…can’t buy a job it seems with a felony record. I also don’t have a 4 year degree, but I have 6 years of college and since my mid 20’s I learned to apply myself and found that I could pull straight A’s in pretty much anything at any school. Now I’m 39 though and have very little going for me…I still dream of one day getting into med school and…fingers crossed…maybe even getting a license to practice in the states. I realize how silly this must seem, but it’s really the only thing I am truly passionate about…I know so much about medicine it’s ridiculous. I started nursing school at the beginning of last year, but I ran out of money for tuition and haven’t finished. My idea was that perhaps I could use a RN to bridge to a BSN or just take my pre-reqs for med school and ace the MCAT…then MAYBE a med school might give me a chance…I figure that by the time all of that work is done, my seven years since my conviction would be long past and I could get it expunged from my record. Am I just dreaming or does anyone think I might have a chance to be Dr. Doug one day? If anyone has similar experience’s or any constructive advice, I would very much like to hear it. I’m Googled out by now…I just can’t find anything definative and concrete regarding my particular situation. Bye-the-way, the reason I originally got hooked on pain pills was because of a major surgery I had while I was working in pharmacy…and the attitude was take whatever you have to take to stay at work from the R.Ph.'s…I saw 5 of them go off to rehab during my time their and saw one fall off of a stool because he was so messed up on pills…so it wasn’t a very good atmosphere to be in…at the time I honestly didn’t think of it as criminal behavior…I obviously know better now and am very careful with what I put in my body…but the damage is done. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
Okay this is hard, you were convicted of a feleony that delt with drugs and Prescriptions fraud, WOW that is really a tough one, any RN that was caught doing this would loose thier License and never practice again, You have to disclose this to the Nurising boards and to the Medical boards when you apply for Licensure. I really do not know how to answer if they will consider you for a RN or MD lic ever at this point? I would call the boards and ask if they will in your state? If they say no to you in your state it doesn’t look good. Also the medical schools as well as the Nursing schools may do a background check on you and this would show up. I really doubt they will admit you into the programs, I even had a background check coming to the Caribbean for Medschool, as an RN, I know we would not hire anyone that had a background check of theft.
So I would check with the state boards for the answer.
Nursing is not a spring board to medicine, you take different courses and in the end you will almost be doing double work to get to Medschool,
Only some of the courses are “cross compatable”
Good Luck
Thank you Anne for your honesty. That’s pretty much what I’ve been hearing from others, but I thought maybe if enough time had passed, it might make a difference. Also, I realize that being a RN is not a springboard to an MD scholastically speaking…I was hoping I could pay for my pre-med courses and save some for med school by making a decent salary as an RN…not to mention the patient contact experience. Perhaps it really is too late for me though. Thank you again and good luck in your career.
I wanted to tell you I believe you have learned from your past mistakes and that you should be given a chance.
ALso I reread the GA laws and rules and nothing was there about Felonies and Lic but…on the applications there is a paragraph that asks for disclosures of Felonies and convictions ect.
I know the boards have the right to turn people down for Licensure so I guess thats where it happens, by the board review of the application.
Research it with the boards and see what they say?
Good Luck and sorry.
Wow! Thank you so much for doing some research for what is really my problem Whuds. I was wondering if I had my felony record expunged, would that help in regards to getting a license to practice or even getting into med school? If anyone knows anything about this process, I would appreciate their input. Thank you all for you input and honesty.
I am pretty sure that if a criminal conviction is expunged it’s as if it never happened. But I am not a lawyer, which is whom you need to talk to.
That’s true. I plan to seek the council of an attorney regarding my particular situation. Also, I apologize to you Whuds for calling you Anne in my first response. I briefly reviewed your signature and saw the Anne name and thought that was your name. Thank you all again for your time and consideration of my situation.
I think your first step is probably to see a lawyer and ask what the process is for getting your record expunged, if it is even possible, in your state. If it will be possible to get it expunged, they should have some idea as to how long after your convinction you have to wait to apply, and how long the process will take.
If it looks unlikely that you will get your record expunged, I don’t think your chances of practicing as a MD in the US are very good. Even if you could slip by admissions screening processes without disclosing your felony, (which is unlikely as more and more schools are requiring background checks prior to matriculation or at the very least prior to clinical duties) the bigger question is could you ever get a DEA license to prescribe drugs? Having or being able to obtain a DEA # is a requirement for being eligible for state licensure in some states. Perhaps one of our MDs on here can speak a little more to what kind of info they have to provide in order to obtain a DEA number and state licensure.
An an unfortunate part of our criminal justice system in the US is that despite our claim to want to “rehabilitate” criminals and make them a productive part of society, it is very difficult for someone with a felony to get a chance to prove that they made a mistake. People don’t want to hire them and they often end up returning to a life of crime because they can’t make a living within the law (not saying that you would do that). It’s a fine line between protecting the public and giving someone a chance to prove they have made a change in their life.
Again, I think the first step is to find yourself lawyer who knows specializes in this area (maybe one who has represented other health care professionals facing loss of their licensure). And, try to find a reputable one who will tell you if they don’t think its possible rather than taking your money when they know its not. You would be better served spending money on getting your record expunged and etc. than spending any more money on nursing school as you are unlikely to be allowed to do clinical rotations or obtain a nursing license with your felony anyways.
Good luck.
I have pretty much come to the same conclusion. The truth is that I really would rather practice medicine than go the nursing route. In either case however, I will have to deal with my felony background, and that should be taken care of first. I am also interested in doing medical research. Therefore I think, while waiting for enough time to pass to get my record expunged, I will go ahead and pursue a degree in biology or genetics (maybe chemistry even). That way, even if I am not allowed to practice medicine, I might be able to do medical research with a Ph.D. instead. Again, I really do appreciate all of you taking the time to address my ‘situation’. Thank you and good luck to all of you in your career’s…maybe, with a little luck and some more hard work, I can join you in the medical profession someday.
Doug,
If I were an adcom, I think I’d like to see an applicant who had a criminal record do a substantial amount of meaningful community service.
- DRDOUG Said:
Doug, you have a very thoughtful and mature approach and I feel bad that you have such a difficult road ahead of you. I guess we all wish we could turn back the clock and make different choices; if I only knew then what I know now.... Anyway should you find that you are unable to overcome your history, medical research is surely more appealing than being in a job that is unsatisfactory and all the while wishing you were practicing medicine. Who knows, you may find a place in research or teaching that is right up your alley and you may end up being very satisfied with your choices. Best of luck to you.
- DRDOUG Said:
Hi there,
At this point,just about every hospital is requiring a criminal background check of every employee or person rotating through their facility. If you have a felony conviction, it is like to show up on that background report. These are done through the police and FBI.
I recently had to vote on whether or not to allow a student to attend clinical rotations because their background check came up with hit. I elected NOT to know what the HIT was for but I voted against allowing this student to continue. (When this student started, the medical school did not require a background check now the clincial affiliates require the checks)
The hospitals will only allow this student if we (a member of the faculty) constantly supervise this student. Constant supervision by a faculty member would draw undue attention to this student and would constitute treating this student differently from other students on the same rotation (besides being impractical for the faculty) so I voted with the majority. The student doesn't rotate.
This degree of criminal investigation was previously not in place even two years ago but it's in place now. I would really doubt if you could have your record expunged to the degree that these checks require for clearance. Even convictions as a minor will red flag though we are not given the details of the nature of those convictions.
This medical student is in a very bad situation because we cannot clear them for clinicals (we become liable to the facility if we do). You better bet we are doing some detailed background checks before we admit students now.
Natalie
Will he be ok if the charge is more than 7 years old? I tought background checks only went back 7 years. I’ve worked in finance and everytime they did a background check they only went back 7 years.
I believe financial record-keeping (civil {tort} law) and criminal record-keeping (criminal law)are two different creatures, if I remember correctly. Criminal records are for keeps (except for when they can be effectively expunged). I received a ‘minor consuming alcohol’ conviction during my first weekend at college that has dogged me ever since then. While this has been nowhere near as severe and burdensome as the OP’s problem, it has still been a pain in the butt. Every time I have filled out an employment application, I have felt compelled to include my offense in spite of any possible relevance it has to who I am today. Should I choose not to include it (nearly every application imaginable questions for criminal status now), I could be spontaneously terminated at any time after being hired if my employer decides they want an easy way to get rid of me (and they did a simple $4 background check). My point is that even the most minor criminal blot can continue to have detrimental effects later in life. BTW, check this link: Expunction
I could have my record expunged pretty easily, and I may do it someday. It has only ever been an irritation, and it would be more $$ than I wish to spend to have it done. For the OP, however, it may be much harder if not impossible. I include impossible because I notice that many state statutes include exceptions to the retrieval of expunged records which tend to include, “agencies of professional licensure” (i.e. the legal board, the medical board, etc.) So, even if one were to endure the time & expense of such an expunction, this would not necessarily keep one off the hook after enduring the time & expense of completing most of the medical training. It pains me to say it, but it sounds like the OP is stuck. Short of leaving the country to begin a new life elsewhere, practicing medicine might not be an option here.
From the AAMC website (http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/oct04/background.htm):
Medical Schools Seek Security of Student Background Checks
Law enforcement and federal government jobs are not the only professions requiring criminal background checks anymore. Mindful of terrorist threats and increased patient safety concerns in America’s hospitals, many medical schools now conduct background checks on incoming students.
For years many institutions performed checks on all faculty and staff, but because medical students have frequent contact with patients some schools are extending the policy. Several schools conduct checks, and one institution views them as a proactive measure that could benefit students in the future. According to 2003 AMCAS data, of the 201 applicants who reported felony convictions, 199 were not admitted while two were accepted. There were 34,786 total applicants in 2003-2004.
A recent murder-suicide case involving a University of Arkansas medical student who had a criminal history brought the use of background checks back to the forefront. The University of Arkansas does not conduct background checks currently but is considering changing the policy in the wake of this incident.
Ohio State University initiated its own comprehensive background check policy and inaugurated it this year with first-year students. Current students will be retroactively checked, beginning with fourth-year students because they are closer to working in clinical settings.
“We’re doing it to protect the institution and to assess the students so if something does come up, we can work with them to see if they can still become a licensable professional,†said Judith Westman, M.D., Ohio State University’s associate dean of student affairs and medical education administration.
Only applicants who have been interviewed and recommended for acceptance are subject to background checks. Students receive a letter of their admittance pending a background check. Initially, students will pay for the checks, and if they choose to matriculate, the school will reimburse them. Background checks, depending upon whether the student is from Ohio or out of state, cost between $17 and $40.
Checks and Balances
When designing the background check policy, Ohio State officials were careful to separate it from any admission decisions, Dr. Westman said, citing the need to protect students’ civil rights. The school did not want to be accused of conducting a “witch hunt†for students with a criminal background or for denying entry based on past events.
Ohio State divides reported criminal incidents into two categories: minor offenses and those that disqualify a student from accessing clinical sites. For example, if a student had a conviction related to mental health problems, the school would help the student accumulate the documentation detailing successful treatment needed to appeal to the state medical board. But if the check unearthed a sexual assault or child abuse, the student could not be placed in a clinical rotation, Dr. Westman said.
“If someone has been arrested and convicted of voyeurism, how can I put them in a gynecology exam room?†she said. “This is a patient safety issue, and they can’t be placed in a clinical setting. Therefore, they can’t be allowed to continue in the program.â€
Almost one half of U.S. states already require criminal background checks or are considering legislation that would require them for doctors applying for licensure, and the AAMC is working with member institutions to develop guidelines on the use of background checks. Several schools indicated they are weighing the benefits and burdens of background checks.
Full Disclosure
Duke University School of Medicine’s policy is similar to Ohio State’s. School officials evaluate both misdemeanors and felonies. Although the school has never found anything unsavory in a student’s past that was not disclosed, there is a policy in place should that happen, said Richard Wallace, Duke’s assistant director of admissions.
If a student lies about a conviction, Wallace said the vice dean of the medical school, dean of students, an advisory panel of four other deans and the school’s legal counsel evaluate the nature of the crime and determine whether the student can matriculate.
“We make it very clear to these students that we’re not trying to keep them from enrolling in school,†Wallace said. “We’re just trying to make sure there are no skeletons in their closet that will come back to haunt them or to haunt Duke.â€
The checks also benefit the students when they reach clinical rotations because hospitals affiliated with Duke require everyone who interacts with patients to undergo a background check.
Oregon Health Sciences University also began criminal background checks on first-year students this year because the students will need a background check before entering a clinical setting. However, the school decided that current students will not be checked.
“Our institution felt it made sense to ask questions of students to ensure we have people here who have the background that should allow them to be here,†said Robert Vieira, Ed.D., Oregon’s vice provost for academic and student affairs.
The campus public safety office pays for the background checks from its departmental budget. The cost of adding students to the 12,000 employee background checks being conducted ann- ually is minimal, Dr. Vieira said. If the check unearths an incident, the public safety office along with an administration official and the medical school dean determine whether the student can remain enrolled.
Check Required
Other schools require background checks simply because state law mandates them. Students at the University of Minnesota Medical School submit to back- ground checks at the beginning of each school year. During orientation, students fill out the forms that allow the state to determine whether they are fit to work in clinical sites.
Rather than benefiting the institution, Minnesota officials look at running criminal background checks as a method of protecting the public health in general.
“This is an issue of the public needing to feel the people taking care of them are secure,†said Helene Horowitz, Ph.D., Minnesota’s associate dean for student affairs. “Having the checks in place at the governmental level ensures the public adequate precautions have been taken for those one-in-a-million situations where patients are hurt.â€
According to James Thompson, M.D., president and CEO of the Federation of State Medical Boards (FSMB), conducting background checks when students enter medical school would protect the public. One of the Federation’s primary goals is to prevent those with criminal pasts from entering the medical profession.
“The cost to society is great when medical schools educate individuals who will never be allowed to practice medicine because of prior criminal history,†he said. “Having background checks prevents these people from becoming part of the profession.â€
Identifying students with criminal records before they enter medical school could prevent situations where potentially violent individuals could be given access to hospitals and lethal doses of medication, Dr. Thompson said. Relying on self-disclosure forms is inadequate because too many applicants lie when questioned. For example, a recent Florida state background check of all healthcare workers discovered that 44 percent of individuals guilty of felonies did not reveal the infraction.
But waiting for background checks can be time-consuming, according to officials at the North Carolina Medical Board. North Carolina runs checks through the FBI and results often take as long as eight weeks, and fingerprints are sometimes lost.
—Whitney L.J. Howell
ok so all of this has brought up a question…
I have heard that background checks for adults go back to 18 years old. If someone has something on record say at 14 or 15, does that show up?
Just from my casual glance at a few state websites (FL, NC, IN, CA, and the lexus-nexus site) the answer looks like ‘yes’,‘no’, and ‘it depends’ (not in any particular order). First off, every state seems to make a differentiation between “sealing” and “expunction.” Sealing a record means nobody except certain law enforcement agencies & professional licensing bodies can peek. It seems easier, at a glance, to get records sealed than to have them expunged, especially for juveniles. Having a record expunged leaves nothing behind but a little post-it saying “a criminal record was expunged here.” (for whatever that is worth) Juveniles also seem to have an easier time getting their records expunged down the road provided they have kept their noses clean… so to speak.
California (leave it to Cali to have all the nutball statutes) seems to treat minor drug offenses much more casually than other states, but the byzantine legal procedures I saw made my head feel all swimmy.
In summary, and in general, kids get cut a little slack when it comes to youthful indiscretions, but generally, records are available unless someone makes an effort to change that. Otherwise, the process of cleaning up a criminal record is a messy process that varies widely by state and seems well worth the cost of a lawyer to do that dance they do. I have also reminded myself why I am not on the Old Pre-Legals site… (sounds like some sort of porn site!) 
I would imagine that these particular offenses would be hard to expunge and the DEA will most likely have access to this record even if it were expunged in a legal sense prior to giving out a DEA number.
To be honest and quite blunt, the odds are quite slim that you would
a) be accepted to medical school per background check
b) Be allowed to do clinical rotations per background check
c) be allowed in a residency per background check
In fact, I’m suprised you were allowed into a nursing program with those types of offenses.
It’s good that you recognize your indiscretions, however not getting into med school will likely be a consequence of those indiscretions.
I realize that this board is a place for non-trads to come and sort out their chances, and for the most part we are supportive. But this is a case where I definitely have to say it is extremely highly unlikely that you will be a doctor.
Edit: I do appreciate you sticking up for me in the other forum, and realize that what I post is only my opinion, so if your dream is to be a physician, then by all means go for it. I just don’t want to candy-coat this situation like a lot on OPM tend to do.
- njbmd Said:
- DRDOUG Said:
This degree of criminal investigation was previously not in place even two years ago but it's in place now. I would really doubt if you could have your record expunged to the degree that these checks require for clearance. Even convictions as a minor will red flag though we are not given the details of the nature of those convictions.
Natalie
This is the part that upset me (I do not have this problem) But if some one was convicted as a minor of anything I thought it was closed after they are 21, then the record exsponged, if exsponged it should not show up at all. I really think when some one commits a felony lets say at 15 ( in some states possesion of any illegal drug and any amount can be a felony) then how do we give this person a chance to grow up and mature and now be the great person they have become? As a society we say sorry you messed up and now are awesome but you can never be trusted again? I really think that would be wrong.
So many people have broken the law so many times and just were lucky not to get caught
To everyone who has responded to this thread…thank you…for your honesty, support and understanding. It seems that I will probably never become an M.D or D.O., but perhaps I can contribute something of importance to medicine through research…perhaps I can save and prolong lives in this way. Thank you, sincerely.