Pre-med Mom of 3 young kids - unrealistic??

Hi All,


I’ve been lurking on this site for several years, and haven’t posted, but finally felt compelled to today.


I’m a 31 year old Mom to 3 young boys (ages 9, 4, and 10 mos); currently on a hiatus (because of son#3) from my post-bacc, pre-med studies. I am really itching to go back to school this summer. I’m wondering how many of you out there are in the same (or similar) situation as me and if any of you med students had small kids going into med school. I have an acquaintance who had a small child before both she and her husband started med school together. She felt that is was really a matter of time-management to juggle her kid’s schedule and their school schedule. They would often take her to class with them - and she spent a lot of days in gross anatomy lab (they both went to Stanford med). But I have not yet met any Moms with more than one kid, much less 3, going into med school…


Several “old-time” docs that I’ve talked to (generally men) are very negative and tell me that I should give up my dream of being a doctor and perhaps go into nursing instead. Not to detract from nurses, a very vital part of medicine, but I don’t know if this was purely chauvinism at work or the reality of my situation.


Most of my friends who are in their young-30s (all women) and are MDs are pretty positive, but reiterate that it will be hard - of course, they are my friends. I’ve also talked to Judy in the past (hi Judy!), and she has said that I have a steep hill ahead of me, but she hasn’t outright told me that I “can’t do it,” of course that was when I only had 2 kids…


I have looked into a nurse practitioner program here at UCSF, which I have been told is as competitive or more competitive to get into as med school, and extremely intense. So I wonder, if I am going to go through that stress - maybe I should just go for the “gusto”?


I still have about 2 quarters of coursework to go, but don’t want to rack up the expense of pre-med, plus extra childcare if it is really so far fetched…


I would love more anecdotal evidence (if any), and any advice would be much appreciated.


Thanks in advance!!


Victoria

  • zephyrdg Said:
Hi All,

I've been lurking on this site for several years, and haven't posted, but finally felt compelled to today.

I'm a 31 year old Mom to 3 young boys (ages 9, 4, and 10 mos); currently on a hiatus (because of son#3) from my post-bacc, pre-med studies. I am really itching to go back to school this summer. I'm wondering how many of you out there are in the same (or similar) situation as me and if any of you med students had small kids going into med school. I have an acquaintance who had a small child before both she and her husband started med school together. She felt that is was really a matter of time-management to juggle her kid's schedule and their school schedule. They would often take her to class with them - and she spent a lot of days in gross anatomy lab (they both went to Stanford med). But I have not yet met any Moms with more than one kid, much less 3, going into med school...

Several "old-time" docs that I've talked to (generally men) are very negative and tell me that I should give up my dream of being a doctor and perhaps go into nursing instead. Not to detract from nurses, a very vital part of medicine, but I don't know if this was purely chauvinism at work or the reality of my situation.

Most of my friends who are in their young-30s (all women) and are MDs are pretty positive, but reiterate that it will be hard - of course, they are my friends. I've also talked to Judy in the past (hi Judy!), and she has said that I have a steep hill ahead of me, but she hasn't outright told me that I "can't do it," of course that was when I only had 2 kids...

I have looked into a nurse practitioner program here at UCSF, which I have been told is as competitive or more competitive to get into as med school, and extremely intense. So I wonder, if I am going to go through that stress - maybe I should just go for the "gusto"?

I still have about 2 quarters of coursework to go, but don't want to rack up the expense of pre-med, plus extra childcare if it is really so far fetched...

I would love more anecdotal evidence (if any), and any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!

Victoria



I'm a DAD of three and they are older (14,15,17) and I understand that it is even tougher when they are young, but kids need the parents until??? I still do at 42 LOL.

I think you just need to be aware and find "your way" to spend time with the kids. To me I see parents both working sometimes 60 to 80 hours a week and they have time so why couldn't we? I think you can IMO.

I am a father of 5, 3, and 8 month old daughters. I am about to complete a Masters degree that I have been working on for about 5 years and I will be starting medical school in the fall.


It requires a lot of scheduling and time away from home. But when I make family plans, I leave the school stuff at home. I always make sure to make family plans once a week and wait until my daughters are in bed to continue studying for the evening. It is hard, but doable.

Hi Victoria,


First, I would like to say that if medicine is what you want, then you should push forward. For a long time I had been looking at nursing, it is a very noble career, but the diagnostic side of medicine is what I want even more. I work in a hospital currently as a health unit coordinator/monitor tech, and have had a wonderful opportunity to work with some fantastic nurses, but that is their career choice…not mine.


Second, you are young still (I’m 42 to your 31), and I say that if I can pursue this at my age, why don’t you take this time to enjoy your children, they grow up so fast…and this unofficial education that you will be getting will be worth its weight in gold when you do go back to school.


Kris

I’m sorry but I don’t think that it is quite the same as being a mother of 3 young ones. Yes, you too, will need to make compromises and you will unfortunately miss out on some of their growing up, but I think unfortunately, mothers have it a little harder. While yes there are some Dads that are more maternalistic than some Moms, I think for the most part, childrearing is still left largely to the Moms, and with that comes a lot of guilt if they feel that they can not be everything to everyone.

First of all not to be rude…but being the father of X children is just not the same as being the mother of X children. I appreciate men but in “general” (and yes there are exceptions) women take on the major role of providing for MOST of they day to day needs of a family to include cooking, laundry, shopping, homework, appointments.


Now to your question. I think that having three small children and going to medical school is very tough. I myself would NOT do it just yet but that does not mean you would not do it. Here is my reasoning, first of all the hours spent studying and going to class for ME were huge. This can vary if you go to a school that is PT classes and then you can study but still, you have to study a lot. That is the first two years which are more “user friendly” time wise…but come third year you will be gone a lot! I am now leaving home at 5:00 and returning around 9:00. Sure this is not for all rotations but for some. You will still have to study once you get back home! yup it sucks. Now, if you have a husband/mother/MIL/sister that can TAKE ON YOUR ROLE FULL TIME then you are set. Meaning they will have to do the shopping, cooking, cleaning, homework. Not saying you will NOT be able to do this at times but you have to make THEM understand that they will be mostly responsible and then IF you can help great.


Then there is residency working up to 80 hrs/week and then coming home and having to read some. Are you ready for all of the above? and do you have the support?


Remember, medical school will be there ALWAYS why not wait until your kids are older?

How are you saying what I said is different? I’m confused…

Can I not reiterate your point? not sure why you posted that comment? sometimes folks post w/o necessarily going through every single work in the prior post…

  • efex101 Said:
First of all not to be rude....*but* being the father of X children is just not the same as being the mother of X children. I appreciate men but in "general" (and yes there are exceptions) women take on the major role of providing for MOST of they day to day needs of a family to include cooking, laundry, shopping, homework, appointments.



Question to this and exception, I did Housework and MOST of the cooking since I did it for pay once please lets not stereo type here we are above that. I also helped my kids with home work, ( it's about offensive to say Men are so different.)

I also volunteered for BSA for my Boys and would have for my Girl but my ex did. I always thought Men and Women are equals and to be that Men have to share in the raising of the Children. And I'm older 42 that does live that way. ( I miss my kids too much while at school you have no idea)

Whuds did you not read what I put in brackets? of course there are exceptions! but in general for most marriages/couples the vast majority of that burden falls on the shoulders of the woman. Sorry if you got offended but that is a fact that I see over and over again regardless of where they come from and what they do.

  • efex101 Said:
Whuds did you not read what I put in brackets? of course there are exceptions! but in general for most marriages/couples the vast majority of that burden falls on the shoulders of the woman. Sorry if you got offended but that is a fact that I see over and over again regardless of where they come from and what they do.



I understand you meant well, these Males who do not share that much, should have been brought up to do so, my boys cook and do laundry at 14 and 17, they are told that they have to learn to do basic things like this and have always seen my share the load. So it's off topic but some Men do understand the demands of a working parent.

I'm not offended but think we have to keep in mind there are some of us out there.

And message to the OP your spouse should help out more while you go back to school. SPending more time with the Kids should not be a burden but a joy as you see it, as well as helping around the house more, women are partners not slaves.

BTW While here in the Carib I do my own laundery and cook and clean the bathroom (Yuck) for me and my roommate, but I'm teaching him too. These are good skills LOL taking care of yourself!

Absolutely there are some that do it all! to include my amputee husband and my son. I am also teaching my son how to cook/clean/do laundry just as much as I do my daughter…I think that a lot of this is truly the fault of some mothers/spouses that do not take the time to teach their sons or husbands/SO how to do this…or do not put their foot down. Sorry about getting off topic here…



  • efex101 Said:
Absolutely there are some that do it all! to include my amputee husband and my son. I am also teaching my son how to cook/clean/do laundry just as much as I do my daughter....I think that a lot of this is truly the fault of some mothers/spouses that do not take the time to teach their sons or husbands/SO how to do this..or do not put their foot down. Sorry about getting off topic here...



Hey It's ok I think we needed to understand each other, I really think spouses should understand that the journey of marriage is sharing joys,sadness and the work you go through in living a life together. Part of the joy of raising children is taking them to soccer for example and hearing about their day. I find joy in even (Yuck) cleaning the bathroom, it smells nice and hey I did it!


Hi Victoria


I am 36 and I have 2 kids - 4 year old boy and 20 month old girl. My husband is on the road 5 days a week, thats the nature of his job. So that makes me the sole parent for the most part.


I have been doing pre-reqs at Penn State Univ to get into med school since Jan 06. Life has been tough, there were times when I felt like throwing in the towel. Yet I did not give up and I am happy to say that I have A grades in all my courses so far (2 semesters Gen Chem, 1 semester Physio, 1 semester Mol bio, 1 semester Org Chem) I also volunteer on weekends at a free clinic (3 hrs/week). It most certainly is all about time management but you can do it. That’s what I tell myself! Good luck!

  • Anu

Victoria,


My sister-in-law had two boys whilst in medical school and this resulted in her taking an extra year or so to finish up. Her spouse is a prof of organic chemistry who has a busy job and travels a fair amount. Now the kids are 2 and 5 and will undoubtedly spend a fair amount of time in daycare or preschool/school in the coming months.


To echo what others have said (including Gabe who I think was unfairly dismissed because he’s a dad ) it’s difficult but do-able. I think Mary Renard has some “old” kids and you might try searching for her past postings on this subject.


I would say, follow your heart. There’s no “good time” to have kids or go to medical school; life will always intervene somehow. In the long run think how happy you’ll be to have accomplished this great project, and you will be able to spend more quality time with them later on. It’s not like spending the next 15 years being a stay at home mom, perhaps, but do you really want to be 15 years older and not a physician? Kids today become independent quite early on, and they’ll have each other to keep company (the older one will undoubtedly be aloof soon ) and school will also happen.


Best of luck,

  • whuds Said:


And message to the OP your spouse should help out more while you go back to school. SPending more time with the Kids should not be a burden but a joy as you see it, as well as helping around the house more, women are partners not slaves.



OK I am going to get off-topic for a second too, but helping around the house is not what we are talking about.... I don't EVER hear of a mom being commended for "helping" with the kids or the housework! And this is the dilemma for women; no offense, guys, but moms *generally* have a better sense of the day-to-day minutiae of what is going on with the kids. They are the ones who call the day care provider, who worry about what to do on a snow day, who remember that one kid doesn't like purple, who know that Monday is early release day and the kids get out of school at 1:30 instead of 3:30, who tend to be the ones who are up all night with a sick kid.

Yes, there are exceptions to this, but even those men who cook, clean and are very involved with stuff in their kids' lives aren't usually the ones who internalize the schedules and needs of every person in the family. For better or for worse, that orchestrating job almost invariably seems to fall to moms.... and no matter how the chores are split, the role of mom tends to be different from the role of dad.

My own experience really doesn't relate to the question of the OP at all, as two of my three children weren't even home when I went to med school. To the OP, I do think you can do it -- I know that others have. What you will need to do is discuss HOW you're going to do it. What does your husband do? What flexibility does he have? Will he be able to step up and take on the role of primary parent and homemaker? I do think that med school with little kids is probably harder than a full time job, in that there's always something new and stressful to tackle (whereas a job **can be** fairly predictable).

The time demands of residency vary greatly depending on the field. Very few specialties actually have you working 80 hours a week, **every** week. You'll have the chance to think about specialty choice and how it will fit in with your growing family during third and early fourth year of medical school, and you'll see what the schedules are like during your rotations, so I won't try to give details about all the different ways it could work.

So back to the original question - can you do it? Yes, as long as you recognize that you will need, not "help," but essentially a clone of yourself who can be the primary household manager/parent so that your energies go to: 1, enjoying the time you do have with your kids, and 2, doing well in school. (Notice which one I put first.)

I will say that I tend to agree with those who encourage you to take your time and not be in too much of a rush. I know it's trite, but you know the saying about no one getting to old age and regretting the amount of time they spent at work.... do figure out a way to make the most of this time with your babies; they grow so fast!

All the best to you --

Mary

First, I have read every post prior. The way it was phrased on top that it was a response to my comment which made me question it and signify my confusion. It was just the way you started by saying…“not to be rude…but” and then just reiterated what I had said. Had it been a response to another poster, I wouldn’t have responded to yours.


Either way…we agree, right?

I really think this depends on the Male, I for one took care of the all the extra curricular stuff, she took care of the school meetings, Heck I also helped to run the local BSA, schedules and all, I think it’s just bad to generalize thats all. I think society keeps this Men and Women are so different kind of thinking going, it needs to stop, we are more alike then different, Look I spent 17 years as an RN and Mary you understand I’m putting my neck out here but my MOM and those 17 years taught me a lot, I think men should be expected to be nurturing as much as Women. But anyway we can debate this till the cows come home.


Bottom line I do not nor ever will accept generalizations about men and how they are. I think there are plenty of other men out there that think the way I do. ( I act on it too)


BTW since I’m an RN I was up with the kids all night many times and I also took turns feeding them and changing them in the middle of the night even though my first wife stayed at home. I wanted to, I thought that was what you did as a parent.


( to also throw this in, Yes I may be a little sensitive, I miss my kids so much, I’m in the Caribbean away form them and my wife this is really hard when you always did so much together all the time.)

Hi Victoria,


in response to your post, I do believe med school with 3 young kids is do-able. I’m a 38 year old premed with 3 kids (ages 6, 4, almost 3) myself. I also work part time, volunteer, and am very active with my kids and their school, too. I am married to an ortho surgeon, and I am very aware of what med school and residency was like. I also did a grad degree when my first two were born, while working at a paid job and being primary caregiver. It’s not easy, but it is possible. One of my best friends is in med school now at age 39 with 3 daughters, ages 8, 6, and 4. She’s managing well. There is guilt on her part when she can’t make every single field trip, but the reality is that she probably wouldn’t have made all of them regardless of school. She priorizes her kids from the moment she walks into the door till they go to bed and leaves the school stuff alone. Her marks are not the top, but she’s not planning on trying for a very competitive residency spot.


How both of us make things work: First, we both have live-in domestic help. Live in here is way cheaper than live-out, and it allows alot of flexibility. In my friend’s case, her husband has taken over being the family CEO: he arranges the playdates, the pickups and dropoffs, the birthday presents, the school forms, etc. He works fulltime, but he’s essentially become her “wife”. In my case, although my DH is very hands-on as a dad, I am still the CEO. However, we have “rounds” twice weekly: Sunday and Wed. evenings when the kids are in bed. We both have a book with a list, and we go over the week and the rest of the schedule and decide who is doing what, when, etc. Then we tell our nanny the “plan”. We communicate frequently throughout the day if there are changes. I expect this to continue while I am in med school and on. My Dh will be scheduling less work time as I get busier. We will not have as much money obviously, but that’s ok.


I have also created a strong network of friends who can help pinch-hit in the occasional emergency…such as when I was writing an exam and my DH couldn’t get to the school on time to pick up our eldest. I also do what I thought I’d never do, but now I plan everything in advance, including menus, so there’s no last minute panic.


I’m very close with my children. So is my DH. I don’t think that has to change, although the reality is that I won’t be at every single childhood event. I think you can also be a wonderful role model for your children by pursuing this dream. I don’t think you should give up.

It’s sad but this will be my last post on this ever, it seems that Men cannot be accepted to have an opinion on this, we are unable to understand and give a point of view is the message here.


Thats just one of the reasons I went to Medschool, nursing is like this to men also.


To the OP I think you should do what’s in you heart and makes you happy, if going to med school will do that it makes you better, a better person and a happier person, spouse and MOM!