First let me say what a wonderful website this is.
I have always been interested in a medical career. I completed my bachelors degree and went on to complete my MSW. I worked in a community health setting while I was a practicing social worker. I am now almost done with my PhD in social welfare and am again reconsidering a career in medicine. I enjoy my research but something is lacking. I feel like I can do so much more as a primary care provider along with my education as a social worker. I don’t know how else to say it other than - it feels wrong that I didn’t even try to become a doctor. Medicine feels right (please ignore the tired cliche).
Now my question. Am I insane? I am on the verge of finishing my PhD and headed toward a productive academic career AND I am not satisfied.
Is there anyone out there that is or has been in my shoes? I feel like even if I try I won’t regret leaving my academic career behind. There is something special about academia that pulls you in and makes you feel uncertain about what otherwise might be a “normal” decision. Over thinking is a way of life I suppose.
Well i will quit ranting and see what feedback is offered.
- msw_ennis Said:
I have always been interested in a medical career. I completed my bachelors degree and went on to complete my MSW. I worked in a community health setting while I was a practicing social worker. I am now almost done with my PhD in social welfare and am again reconsidering a career in medicine. I enjoy my research but something is lacking. I feel like I can do so much more as a primary care provider along with my education as a social worker. I don't know how else to say it other than - it feels wrong that I didn't even try to become a doctor. Medicine feels right (please ignore the tired cliche).
Now my question. Am I insane? I am on the verge of finishing my PhD and headed toward a productive academic career AND I am not satisfied.
Is there anyone out there that is or has been in my shoes? I feel like even if I try I won't regret leaving my academic career behind. There is something special about academia that pulls you in and makes you feel uncertain about what otherwise might be a "normal" decision. Over thinking is a way of life I suppose.
Well i will quit ranting and see what feedback is offered.
I have not been in your shoes directly (we're probably not even the same size) but I started my graduate work towards an MSW, got involved in research instead, and jumped into computers from that. Bit none of that is relevant to your question.
Generally, one thing that adcoms look for are committed individuals. Not completing a PhD that your are nearly done with to jump into medical school does raise the issue of commitment and motivation to complete the long, hard road to medical training. The opposite argument is years of working towards research made you realize you desire direct contact with clients/patients. Additionally, the "cultural" aspect of being an ABD (all but dissertation) is well known.
In sum, generally it is a flag to adcoms jumping from an non-completed graduate program into medical school. The impact from this red flag can be slightly reduced if your are an ABD. However, you need to be able have a single paragraph narrative that explains in a concise, compelling, and coherent manner why you have this change.
I know we have several PhDs out there so please comment.
Oh Yeaaahhhh! PhD Biochem/MBA. I was an pure academic and wrote many papers in prime time journals and gave interviews with journalists worlwide. And then what? Well nothing. I felt empty. You work hard to be published in Nature and Science and when it happens, you realize that that’s as good it will get. Truthfully I felt a big lack. Can’t describe it, but surely unhappy. You get on prime time for a few weeks and then after that everything goes back to normal and I don’t think that my work mattered in any significant way.
I have realized that I want to do more meaningful work. I want to practice medicine, but not just practice. I hope to be able to enter academic med where not only I want to practice, but I will gain insight into processes and technologies to advance medicine as well. Basic science with no applied goal is something that didn’t interest me. Applied science with concrete and direct translation to better treatments is something that sounds very enticing.
Fortunately, my top choice is pushing hard the MD/PhD program. It is something they really believe in (and I now that you get a free ride + salary + healthcare when go that route). I don’t want to do an MD/PhD (already have a PhD), but my point is that if such a program make sense, thus going to Medical School after COMPLETING a PhD can be seen as a perfectly valid choice.
But like Gonnif, I think it would be a mistake not to finish your PhD. I would also add that you should use your PhD knowledge in any ways that can make you a better applicatant. I don’t know how this would pertain to your own situation but in mine, I have publications, I participated to innovation challenges in medicine (I have won a few), I have participated to scientific open source software (and put in well over 1000 hours) and I have used my network (since some of my former colleagues are MDs) to shadow and hopefully to get some good LORs. These are just a few examples, but I am sure there are many other ways.
I believe the wrong way to present the situation is to say “I got a PhD and didn’t like it”. The good way would be “getting a PhD helped me understand how I wanted to do med after I did such and such things” (you got the point).
My 2 cents.
On the cusp of getting my Master’s degree in bioengineering – classes finished, research finished, thesis written but not signed off yet – I decided to change my career to computer programming and left my MS unfinished. Biggest single mistake of my academic life, one I still regret deeply. Finish the PhD, then go to med school. That’s my advice.
I was afraid I might get the “finish first” type responses. I completely understand the need to demonstrate my commitment and the added value of a Ph.D. However, your responses raise another issue for me - pressure. I feel an internal pressure to get done and get on with my life. As badly as I want to become a physician, I need to stop spending all of my waking hours in a classroom. Certainly I am not alone in feeling these mixed emotions about time and school? And I feel like one extra year in this doc program will make me “too old” to pursue a medical career.
Well msw_enis, commitment is best shown in difficult times.
I totally understand your but most of us here are old and probably older than you are. I am 35 and just started my pre-reqs last semester. Secondly, nothing prevents you from starting your “application” now. I mean by that, that the steps to become a strong candidates are numerous and require a lot of time. Why not take the opportunity, while finishing your PhD, to start doing some of that. Now yes you are busy and your PhD is sucking the life out of you. Personally, I babysit my kids between 10 to 13h a day (because I can’t afford daycare for 2), then I have to teach some nights (prepare, grade) and then I take my pre-reqs (Chem and Stat this semester), and then I prepare for the MCAT and I also shadow. 100% of my free time (i.e. no kid and no teaching) is used for my “application” as I put it. Right now I am working on CLEPPING biology (I teach it so it is not too much work, but still), preparing the MCAT for Jan/Mar, I just shadowed 10 h last Tuesday and I have my finals coming up in Stats and Chem. I had to give up on a few things like mowing my lawn, taking two showers a day is not possible (I tend to shower for a long time), eating while working, no work out (which is very bad), no TV (which is very good). No more work on my cars on in my house (which I enjoyed very much) etc…
So my question to you is : how good of an applicant are you now? I am sure, you can do things to improve while you finish your PhD. Doing things that get you closer to your goal, even if it makes you miserable (no free time, always tired and sleep deprived), will help a lot from psychological point of view and are even likely to make you happy. But I truly believe that leaving your PhD so close to completion would be a mistake and that will hurt you much more than losing 1 year.
- msw_ennis Said:
Actually, my opinion on the matter has little to do with demonstrating commitment. After all the work I put into the degree and all the sacrifice I (and my wife) made, it was inexcusable for me to blow it off like that. You never know where life will take you; I wish very badly that I had that master's degree now, if for no other reason than it would make me even more employable, higher income, and allow me to take a night job teaching physics at the local CC.
There are precious few circumstances where having a graduate degree is a bad thing, and a great many where it's good. If you're already almost there, my advice (hey, you asked for it) is to finish it up while you prepare for what you really want. If you get what you really want -- great. You will also have a PhD, which won't hurt anything. And if things don't work out for med school, or if you change your mind and decide the MD route isn't really what you want after all, then hey! You have a PhD! Pretty sweet fallback position. I just don't see the downside to finishing off the PhD.
Of course, you are welcome to value my advice to the same amount that you paid for it.
- redo-it-all Said:
So my question to you is : how good of an applicant are you now? I am sure, you can do things to improve while you finish your PhD. Doing things that get you closer to your goal, even if it makes you miserable (no free time, always tired and sleep deprived), will help a lot from psychological point of view and are even likely to make you happy. But I truly believe that leaving your PhD so close to completion would be a mistake and that will hurt you much more than losing 1 year.
Well, let me tell you about myself a bit and I will let you decide.
I am a first generation college student. My freshman year, some time ago now, was pretty horrible. I ended up overcoming my bad showing and graduating with a 3.38 GPA. I have a MSW and my GPA here is a 4.0. My PhD GPA is a 3.90. I have taken three semesters of stats including two semesters of advanced multivariate since being a doc student. I do not have my pre-reqs complete and will probably just start over on those.
I have quite a bit of medical exposure/experience. I worked as a CNA and as an EMT during my undergrad. I worked in a hospital mostly. I worked on a med/surg floor and in the ER on nights (that was fun). During and after my MSW I worked for a community health clinic for the uninsured. It provided primary care and OB/GYN care.
I see my main deficiency, for now, as the pre-reqs. I have TONS of research experience, as well as publications. My research is not biomedical but social sciences, which may also be a problem (thoughts).
The other comment I must make is about the time I have now. My doc program is overwhelming. I have no time for extra classes or anything else. I know some other programs may allow students time, but not mine. I wish I could work on pre-reqs while doing my dissertation but this IS impossible.
- spoxjox Said:
- msw_ennis Said:
Actually, my opinion on the matter has little to do with demonstrating commitment. After all the work I put into the degree and all the sacrifice I (and my wife) made, it was inexcusable for me to blow it off like that. You never know where life will take you; I wish very badly that I had that master's degree now, if for no other reason than it would make me even more employable, higher income, and allow me to take a night job teaching physics at the local CC.
There are precious few circumstances where having a graduate degree is a bad thing, and a great many where it's good. If you're already almost there, my advice (hey, you asked for it) is to finish it up while you prepare for what you really want. If you get what you really want -- great. You will also have a PhD, which won't hurt anything. And if things don't work out for med school, or if you change your mind and decide the MD route isn't really what you want after all, then hey! You have a PhD! Pretty sweet fallback position. I just don't see the downside to finishing off the PhD.
Of course, you are welcome to value my advice to the same amount that you paid for it.
You make several excellent points, especially about the value of a graduate degree. Unfortunately, my PhD program does not have a well defined ending (like most doc programs) unlike a masters. It "ends" when I finish. I completely understand the sacrifice point as well. My wife and I have been plugging along through my doc for what seems like ages now. And, even though I haven't brought up my family concerns here, they certainly exist.
Well, I’ll put in my 2 cents, I guess. You said “However, your responses raise another issue for me - pressure. I feel an internal pressure to get done and get on with my life. As badly as I want to become a physician, I need to stop spending all of my waking hours in a classroom. Certainly I am not alone in feeling these mixed emotions about time and school? And I feel like one extra year in this doc program will make me “too old” to pursue a medical career”
It seems that by saying you want to stop spending all your waking hours in a classroom, that you feel the need to be practicing instead of studying (OR doing research). And yet you are wanting to switch to medicine. This sounds like:
- your current field of study is not where you want to be – including returning to practice once you are thru.
- Practicing medicine IS where you want to be.
- You don’t really want to be in school at ALL now, but are worried about waiting to start medical school due to a perceived “ticking clock”.
I get all of that. Seems like you are fairly sure you are currently on the wrong road and perhaps you can get an extension /leave from your PhD program. What would you want to be doing RIGHT NOW if you werent’ in your current degree program? If taking premed prereqs and working as an EMT would make you happy, then maybe there IS a good reason for you to switch streams now. If you cannot face more classroom time at this time, sounds like you need a year or two out of the classroom to rethink plunging in to 1 year of prereqs and 2 solid years of classroom, with two more years of clinical PLUS didactic work to complete followed by 3 or more years of heavy patient contact but low income and sleep. I wouldn’t take it on immediately if you have some other life things that need to come first.
Basically - I’d say to follow your passion. If it is draining your spirit for you to continue towards your PhD -if you’ve already identified that this is NOT a goal you want to be headed for - then maybe it IS time to make a switch. Only you know what you really want.
Kate
Another possibility for you to consider or reject:
Maybe, as Kate suggests, you need a break from your PhD program. You will require a year (at least) to prep for med school application before you interview. If you’re accepted, you will have a “waiting year” before you start. That’s at least two years (possibly three or four) before you would start med school, with a guaranteed year or so between acceptance and the start of school. If you really, truly can’t see continuing your PhD at this late stage, why not tell your program you’re taking a year off to recharge your batteries? Then prep for med school for a year and see what happens. After a year, go back and finish up your PhD.
Look, you don’t know me from Adam, and it will make no difference in my life at all what you choose to do. Do whatever is best for you. Judging from my own past, I think that failing to finish up a graduate degree for which you’ve already done most of the work is just plain a bad idea. That is why I am advising you to find a way to finish up your PhD. But if you can give up your PhD with no future regrets for the decision, then by all means do so.
msw
I am totally with spoxjox on this one. Yes you have quite a few things that will make you a good applicant. But I believe that you should find a way to not drop your PhD at this stage. Like others have suggested, perhaps a break to work on your pre-reqs and to take the MCAT may shed some light on whether you want to do this or not. Have talked to your adviser about the possibility to take a break? Or perhaps to get a time estimate to defend? If you have published your work, usually, you can anticipate a defense date.
Anyway, like spoxjox says, this is your life, but it would be sad tif you decided to flush all your work down the toilet by not finishing that late.
Do whatever makes you happy. Make sure that you won’t regret your move.
I wish I could talk to my adviser about all of this. He is a great guy and a dedicated scientist but he won’t even begin to understand my decision to not pursue an academic career when I finish. If I mentioned taking a break to work on anything but research he would laugh.
You ALL make a very good point about the doc… I guess I just don’t like to hear it. I am certain that I will move to the “med school cycle.” Now, I just have to finish up this PhD - another hoop to jump through.
On a different note, and since we briefly broached the subject, how do you all deal with putting off your life (especially the married folks)?
MSW
this is your life and not for him to understand. You can take a break if you want and let him laugh if he wants.
You don’t have to explain yourself. You can say that you want to go to africa for a while or something.
As for the wife part, I am lucky to have an understanding wife. We have 2 kids ( 4 yo and 1yo). The medical school goal and occupation doesn’t really put a strain on the marriage but the kids certainly do. By and large, they are the most time consuming occupation you can have. Studying for Med school is actually a therapy for me. It empties my head, helps me relax. It’s like a hobby.I keep my kids at least 8h/day. At the end of the day, when I have to go teach, or go study, I am so happy to get out of the house and do something for me.
So yes, my wife and I haven’t had a nice conversation over a good meal and nice bottle of wine for a while and it won’t happen anytime soon, but this doesn’t change how we feel. We are in love in good times and even more so during difficult times as now.
I am not sure if it is ok to post some other website’s link here but while researching a topic for myself I came across this and thought it might be helpful to you (similar situation to yours):
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/…
redo
You are right, he has no say what so ever in what I do… except for I can’t finish my doc without his blessings. The PhD is so political. My wife is very supportive as well. She has basically told me the same thing as everyone else here.
Chic:
Thanks for the link.
msw
good luck whatever decision you make. I am sure you will find your way.