I’ve been reading the forum on this topic, and it feels like there are many opinions.
What’s your thoughts?
Want to go to Medical school, no real rush, but will be going out of the country next summer (2012) and will then be able to only take online classes and/or study for MCAT for following two years.
Me:
MS as Family Nurse Practitioner, 2006
Now, 5 years primary care experience
BS 1998
Chem 1/2 1994-5
Bio 1/2 1996-7
Need to take Org 1 and 2, Phy 1 and 2. Need a bio repeat I think.
Plan: Org 1/2 and Physics 1/2 at Postbac program at UC Berkeley Extension, DIY program 2011-2012
Question is on bio 1/2–ok to take as online course through UC Berkeley extension (they have a online with lab course, 5 credits) or better at community college?
Plan to take biochem as online course…but want to prioritize bio 1/2
Thanks!
- aledvina27 Said:
Want to go to Medical school, no real rush...
BS 1998
Chem 1/2 1994-5
Bio 1/2 1996-7
Need to take Org 1 and 2, Phy 1 and 2. Need a bio repeat I think.
Here are my thoughts:
Can you wait until you return to the U.S.?
If so, wait.
If not, do not do online courses.
Last, I would retake gen chem again if for no other reason than helping with that section on MCAT and biology is heavily based upon gen chem as well. Your gchem is 17 years old.
As is often repeated on here, and was told to me, this is not a sprint but a marathon where only a select few get invited to Boston Marathon (med school).
You are competing against 500,000 other people for 15,000 seats. The odds are not great to start with even in you are 19. The odds get worse as you get older and older grades are not salvageable. The odds worsen if your courses are at CC and even worse, if not entirely discarded, if you do online.
That said, there are MANY on here who are in their 50s, or have CC on their transcripts, or had poor grades in ugrad, or who ... there ARE exceptions but, imo, it is best to do everything you can to get your coursework done at the best college/university you can sitting in the classroom before applying.
Good luck to you on your journey!
Thanks that is very helpful-I’m not sure how possible it is to take those three classes together in one semester, but perhaps I’ll try.
- aledvina27 Said:
Want to go to Medical school, no real rush, but will be going out of the country next summer (2012) and will then be able to only take online classes and/or study for MCAT for following two years.
BS 1998
Chem 1/2 1994-5
Bio 1/2 1996-7
Need to take Org 1 and 2, Phy 1 and 2. Need a bio repeat I think.
Plan: Org 1/2 and Physics 1/2 at Postbac program at UC Berkeley Extension, DIY program 2011-2012
Question is on bio 1/2--ok to take as online course through UC Berkeley extension (they have a online with lab course, 5 credits) or better at community college?
Plan to take biochem as online course...but want to prioritize bio 1/2
Thanks!
No online Science is a good idea, it is highly frowned upon by the ADCOM's
I have several thoughts
Your classes from before are older then 10 years this may be a problem
You are going out of the country and will only be able to study over seas.
This is a problem since US Medical schools want the work in science done in the US at US colleges and ideally at University level.
I see you taking 2 years off then? I dunno what else to say?
Unless the ADCOMs have changed and like online classes.
All the online classes I have seen make you come to campus at some point, how would you do that?
Honestly I see many problems with this.
Actually, my plan is to take the three pre-reqs this year, between summer, fall, and spring 2011-2012, then go abroad next June, 2012. While I am gone, I am volunteering as a nurse practitioner and lactation consultant with numerous NGOs in Asia, and will be preparing/studying for the MCATs. I have two small children, so I want to enjoy my time with them, and also want to take advantage of my last year here to get my pre-reqs ready.
- aledvina27 Said:
But this is where your missing the problem
its 2011
your going away for 2 years
your applying in 2013?
- In reply to:
Chem 1/2 1994-5
Bio 1/2 1996-7
Your oldest classes will be 19 years old !
You graduated 15 years ago at that time.
I feel you will need newer classes unless you want to apply to a Caribbean school because they do not care how old the classes are.
US schools do care. Only 40% of all who apply get accepted into a US medical school its a competition.
You really should look into this problem and make sure your on the right path or 3 years from now you will not be working towards your goal.
Getting into a US medical school is very tough and the premed is not a checklist but a package of successes.
Considering this you may need a fresh degree of all the pre reqs or just all the preqs redone?
That will take longer then you have before you go.
I really do wish you luck.
My courses were 30+ years old. I redid the “core” prereqs only - CHem , Bio, Physics, Organic Chem - 2 semesters each with lab. Those are the only ones the schools I applied to were concerned about being current.
Your experience overseas as a NP will definately make your application stand out. I’d go for Chem,and physics before you go, and bio and organic when you come back. Do your MCAT practice in the Chem and Physics while gone and keep that fresh and clear in your mind. Then the bio will be the most recent.
That way, after you return, you are looking at 2 semesters, then MCAT’s and application in the spring, interviews that year and starting the following year in the fall when 
you are accepted.
Kate
They won’t be 19 years old - she stated above that she is retaking organic, physics, and bio during 2011-2012. She was debating taking bio online as well as biochem online.
As long as she does well in organic, physics and bio and on the MCAT this time around, no-one will care that her gen chem is that old. You could make the argument that she should strongly consider whether or not she can update her gen chem knowledge enough on her own to do well in organic and on the MCAT.
So, for me, the big question is: Is redoing the three pre-reqs and doing biochem going to be enough? I don’t know what the OPs original GPA was, but I tend to say “probably not”. If the original GPA was just okay, then just retaking courses and doing well if not going to be enough - the adcoms are definitely going to want to see evidence of academic ability as proven by taking upper level courses. You could make the argument that even if she had a 4.0 the first time around, her application would be better served by taking some upper level courses in addition to the retakes of the pre-reqs. Other than refreshing her knowledge and hopefully improving her MCAT performance, retaking the pre-reqs is not really going to do anything to prove to the adcoms that she still has the academic chops to handle med school.
So - I throw a couple of other things out there: First, go talk to one or two med schools that you are interested in about your situation and see what they recommend. Two, I wouldn’t retake physics unless you think you need to retake it to do well on the MCAT. If you are able to review on your own the pre-reqs, you would be better off retaking biology and then taking upper level courses. Again, this is going to vary from med school to med school - some will balk at 19 year old pre-reqs. However, most will probably let it slide if you have strong recent coursework and a strong MCAT performance.
Ultimately, to have the strongest application, you would retake most of the pre-reqs (due to age) and a few upper level courses. It sounds like doing so would delay your application. So - you are going to have to decide (perhaps after talking to a couple of medical schools) whether you want to risk applying with older pre-reqs or with only retakes vs taking another year after you get back into the US to take some additional courses.
- Kate429 Said:
Your experience overseas as a NP will definately make your application stand out. I'd go for Chem,and physics before you go, and bio and organic when you come back. Do your MCAT practice in the Chem and Physics while gone and keep that fresh and clear in your mind. Then the bio will be the most recent.
That way, after you return, you are looking at 2 semesters, then MCAT's and application in the spring, interviews that year and starting the following year in the fall when
you are accepted.Kate
Yes I understand, But she posted her Bio and chem classes were from over 15 years ago and I did not see she posted that she was going to redo them.
I understood her plan to be ( And I hope she makes it clear) take courses this summer till next and then practice the MCAT and take it and then apply in 2013.
How will she have the fresh prereqs
1yr Bio
1yr chem
1yr Physics
1yr Orgo
all with labs by 2013?
This is what I'm saying, Many either do a Post bac at this point or some kind of Masters since its so much work still to do.
@ Emergency
- In reply to:
As long as she does well in organic, physics and bio and on the MCAT this time around, no-one will care that her gen chem is that old. You could make the argument that she should strongly consider whether or not she can update her gen chem knowledge enough on her own to do well in organic and on the MCAT.
Whats the GPA?
Being a NP may help but the question will be there, why medicine? Why not stay an NP? Nurses, PA's and NP's do not have such a big advantage as
People imagine since in some ways medicine is different.
Look I'm only trying to help, it would be ashame to go along for the next two years thinking your reaching your goal to only find out its still out of reach.
I really appreciate all of the feedback from everyone.
To clarify-and so I can present a clear pix…
I plan to do Bio 1/11, Org I/II, and Physics 1/11 over this coming summer/fall/spring.
I think that this will be a stretch, but that is what the formal postbac programs do (say, at Scripps for instance) and so I can make that work.
I’ll be doing the DIY postbac program at UC Berkeley. I cannot imagine taking on medical school debt, and also the postbac year debt. Berkeley seems to be both economical and feasible, and decent. Another school would be more ideal I imagine.
In terms of Chem I/II I did speak with 2 pre-med advisors, who recod that I repeat Bio 1/11, but did not say anything about Chem I/II. They did recommend Biochem if possible.
In terms of undergraduate, I had a 3.5 GPA, mostly due to an unfocused freshman year focused on political activism more than school.
My graduate school GPA was just under a 4.0.
As a NP, I did not take physics b/c the prep is A&P.
I know that the piece about being a NP doesn’t make you a more likely candidate to get into medical school, but I have many years of relevant experience that are immensely helpful in forming perspective. I worked in public health, trained and worked as a lay midwife, have worked as a family practice NP for five years, and am also a board certified lactation consultant. I have been working in the healthcare field for about 13 years, and have diverse experience both in the US and internationally working with underserved and marginalized populations. I’m really committed. Staying the NP course would be easier, but I have seen that this path isn’t going to take me where I want to go ultimately. I want more clinical expertise, and want the position to be in a position to be a medical director or country medical director working for a national or an international NGO.
As an aside-I’ve been totally inspired by reading Kate’s post (I think we all know her-CNM, 54, in medical school) and have contacted her via a private message b/c I don’t know another way to get in touch).
Kindly, Anne
- aledvina27 Said:
I think that this will be a stretch...
In terms of Chem I/II I did speak with 2 pre-med advisors, who recod that I repeat Bio 1/11, but did not say anything about Chem I/II. They did recommend Biochem if possible.
My graduate school GPA was just under a 4.0.
Here are my thoughts (again):
Buy an MCAT book. Today if possible. I use the Exam Krackers as I like the cartoon explanations.
Then, look at an actual MCAT exam from prior years - generally, they are posted all over the net and at AMCAS.
LOOK and answer the g-chem questions. IF you can answer those questions without a lot of thought OR you know that you can learn by re-studying, THEN do not repeat.
If you can not do that, then seriously consider g-chem.
I personally do not care whether your grades are that old in and of itself, my suggestions come from the MCAT and biology classes.
Biology is more than mitochondria and mitosis, it is chemistry. Much of medical school is chemistry. Many think that medical school is just a lot more biology; the best thing anyone can do is get more chemistry.
That said, do not take online classes.
Yes, it is great to hear the success stories. It is encouraging and we all need that but the roller coaster of pre-med is not always shiny and sparkly.
You started saying you were not in a rush. But you are.
Many of us have seen those try to do what you want, only to fail. Many of us have also seen those succeed (Linda, Mary, Richard, OldMDave):
But if you REALLY want to go to medical school, don't short cut the pre-reqs and don't under estimate the medical schools approach toward keeping people OUT... it is exclusionary, not inclusive. They look for ways/means to justify keeping people out, not ways to admit.
Last, no one will really care about your graduate school coursework. Sorry. I wish they did. It will show on your AMCAS application but overall, it's a "meh" factor.
Kate is inspiring but I'd also encourage you to read the ones who stepped off the path for reasons outside of academic.
Our own Gonnif. Nahani. Hugzmonster. Krissis. Terry's story on the diary section of the board.
It is not meant to discourage but to give you a real picture of how hard not only pre-med is but to get accepted and then medical school itself.
- Adoc2be Said:
- aledvina27 Said:
I think that this will be a stretch...
In terms of Chem I/II I did speak with 2 pre-med advisors, who recod that I repeat Bio 1/11, but did not say anything about Chem I/II. They did recommend Biochem if possible.
My graduate school GPA was just under a 4.0.
Here are my thoughts (again):
Buy an MCAT book. Today if possible. I use the Exam Krackers as I like the cartoon explanations.
Then, look at an actual MCAT exam from prior years - generally, they are posted all over the net and at AMCAS.
LOOK and answer the g-chem questions. IF you can answer those questions without a lot of thought OR you know that you can learn by re-studying, THEN do not repeat.
If you can not do that, then seriously consider g-chem.
I personally do not care whether your grades are that old in and of itself, my suggestions come from the MCAT and biology classes.
................
Has something changed? Have the schools come out and said "As long as the GPA is good it does not matter if your courses are 20 years old?"
I want to know because then I'm giving bad advice.
The ADCOM members I shared a beer with told me different in the past.
Computers do not admit people to medical school, people with real biases and opinions and prejudices do.
The ADCOM's like life are not fair.
The biggest concept I can give premeds is that you have to be as attractive to ADCOMs as possible.
As far as her plan I agree its really ambitious,
When I took Micro in the summer ( back in the dark ages) it was everyday and demanding of time to study and keep up. That was one course with a part time job. I would never tell anyone to do it.
Also Online and even CC courses are not advised when it comes to science, for some reason ( I think unfounded) the ADCOMs see CC as "Easy A's" and not demanding, put on top of that sitting at home or a shortened Summer session and I think you are creating a disadvantage for your chances of acceptance at many schools.
BTW Interviews do not = Acceptance.
Also I know I have "been away" from here for a awhile I'm an RN as well as an MD.
Anne Your Undergrad GPA is very good
You have a lot to offer Medical school don't give up just make sure your plan is good to go for the next few years, I would love to see you succeed.
Bill
Bill - regarding the “prereqs” being old, I think the difference is, what one considers a prereq. I know for med schools you need a certain amount of math and English and a certain number of credits - THOSE are the ones that they don’t care about being 20 years old. (or in my case, 30). It’s the 4 core prereqs that should be in the last 10 years (and bio and organic more recent than that if possible). I agree that doing some advanced level courses in addition - biochem, genetics, anatomy, physiology for example strengthens one’s application. Some of that coursework can be done in the glide year. Also, the advanced clinical degree may have included some graduate level “science” coursework (as opposed to “clinical” coursework) and thus may also strengthen the picture.
Kate
- Kate429 Said:
Kate
Kate I think we agree
But its not what one considers, its what The medical schools tell us are the prereqs
Its what AMCAS tells us
What we should consider is that we are competing against 25 year olds who just graduated college with high GPA's and in some cases Masters and then a few with PHD's
The Applicant pool is so large that 60% of qualified people do not get accepted into medical school.
This is not typical grad school where you apply and if qualified you are accepted, this is Fierce competition.
I went to the Caribbean for Medical school because of this rat race to get into a US school.
Looking back I may have taken a different path.
But now I'm a Doctor and its done.
I hope to help others make better decisions then I did.
Again, this is all super helpful. I think that I was feeling like I just really needed to complete the other pre-reqs, (org 1/11 and phy I/II) and that it would be a bonus if I repeated Bio 1/11. But, now, the pix does look a little different for me.
It’s really tricky to do this in a non-formal setting, b/c for instance, in the state of California, you can either do a formal postbac program ($$ for me, that is often 2 years) or do a DIY program. The only place for the DIY in Northern Cal, is Berkeley extension (which, BTW, is all in-house, and not online and is not a CC), b/c none of the state/UC systems will let you take courses there easily (or if you do $500-$600/per credit, and then better just to do formal program where you’re guaranteed the class).
So, in conclusion, I’m going to contact some med schools, and some pre-med advisors, get their feedback, and then start my classes in a few weeks.
Thanks again to everyone. It’s nice to know about the experiences that others have had.
Good Luck I wish you success
- Adoc2be Said:
OK, this is a wee bit of an exaggeration! The reality is not quite this dismal. According to AAMC data from October 19, 2010 it is really 124,503 applicants vying for 56,255 MD acceptances (45.2%).
https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/ table24-...
According to AACOM data from January 19, 2011 & March 24, 2011 it is also 13,147 applicants vying for 5,428 DO acceptances (41.3%).
http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatric ulants/D...
http://www.aacom.org/data/graduates/Docume nts/Appl...
- Adoc2be Said:
Actually, from what I've experienced medical school is a lot more biology.
- TicDocDoh Said:
And biology is based upon???
Hint: chemistry
And chemistry is based upon??
Hint: physics
And sometimes exaggeration makes for good points when someone is unwilling and unwanting to hear a message... and other posters want to paint a rainbow calliope of colors on the premed path instead of telling the harsh reality.
Hi there all,
I just want to say that I have manage to call and speak with many of the medical school admissions dept. for the schools that I am interested in (from Hopkins to UM Minneapolis to UW Madison to Harvard to Tulane to OSHU to UCSF to UC Davis to Albert Einstein, etc, etc). Every single one completely dissuaded me from re-taking gen chem or gen biology. They emphasized the importance of recent science classes, and said that the org chem and physics I’ll take this next year will help,and that genetics and biochem are an excellent addition (instead of the lower level bio classes). They felt that I would be showing ability to achieve an upper level bio course load by taking biochem and genetics.
So-I’m passing this on, for those who might read this thread in the future. I think it’s useful to get help from online forums, and also feel that it is useful to call schools directly.
peace, anne