sucessful PA with poor undergrad record-MD candidate?

Hello all,


So nice to find such a great site. I hope some folks here will be able to give me advice on my situation. I am currently a practicing PA. I have been working for a few years now and have decided that I would like to go back to be an MD. I took a lot of the usual pre-reqs as an undergraduate, and did not do well. I retook some chem classes and got my GPA up to a 3.13. My grades in PA school were much better (GPA 3.65). I have a great record with my supervising doctors, and they are supportive of my desire to become an MD.


I am currently studying for the MCAT, and I realize that I will need fantastic scores to be a viable candidate.


I am worried that my poor undergraduate grades will be a huge barrier to medical school. I could retake some of the classes, but fear it will look bad retaking so many classes. (Keep in mind that I have already RE-taken orgo and chem. My grades were much improved, but not stellar.)


So: Do I even have a chance?


Many thanks!


Michelle

Michelle - you say you got your GPA up to 3.13, but was that averaging the grades of the courses you retook in there? When the application services, AMCAS, averages your grades, they average in BOTH grades in any courses which were retaken. That said, perhaps a formal postbacc premed program which is flexible regarding courses ( so you could perhaps take different courses such as biochemistry, etc), in which you did well, would probably improve your chances, or even some courses scheduled by yourself. I admit to a bias for a formal program because that’s what I’ve been doing and it had a lot of support, a physics tutor, extra TA assigned just to our cohort, etc to help us achieve good grades. This would help your overall GPA and carry some weight if you could demonstrate a higher performance level. DO school is something to consider as a route to a physician license. They average in your graduate school grades and count PA courses in the science GPA, so your numbers would look much better on that application. It is a bit of a different philosophical approach, and it would be worthwhile to shadow a D.O. in your community if you are not very familiar with Osteopathic Medicine.


That’s all I can think of at this moment.


Kate

Well, actually undergrad and grad GPAs are calculated separately. While the 3.65 GPA in your PA program will be a definitely plus, that 3.13 uGPA is really going to hurt. I think that is where you are going to have to do some major damage control.


You are going to have a much difficult journey trying to get into an allopathic school. However, if you retake any poor grades from you uGPA, especially your sciences, and do well, you will probably have a greater chance at getting into an osteopathic school.


Best of luck!

  • Krisss17 Said:
... that 3.13 uGPA is really going to hurt. I think that is where you are going to have to do some major damage control.

You are going to have a much difficult journey trying to get into an allopathic school.



I completely disagree.

Before stating that is will be difficult for this individual, I would wonder how long the since the 3.13 was completed. Would also wonder which schools were being considered.

4 years?

10 years?

20 years?

Harvard, Columbia, UCSF, UCLA, Mayo?

Length of time away from lower end of desired GPA, is a GREAT thing plus you have the hands-on clinical diagnostics that many of us would die for.

My suggestion: talk to med schools, TELL them your GPA, how long it's been since the u-grad was completed, and what classes you'd want/need to take for MCAT prep.

Then do very, very well in those classes, very very well on MCAT, and let the chips fall where they will.

Do not let a substandard ugrad GPA stop you IF you can do exceedingly well now and bifurcate "then" and "now".

Best of luck to you!
  • jkp2117 Said:
  • Krisss17 Said:
... that 3.13 uGPA is really going to hurt. I think that is where you are going to have to do some major damage control.

You are going to have a much difficult journey trying to get into an allopathic school.



I completely disagree.

Before stating that is will be difficult for this individual, I would wonder how long the since the 3.13 was completed. Would also wonder which schools were being considered.

4 years?

10 years?

20 years?

Harvard, Columbia, UCSF, UCLA, Mayo?

Length of time away from lower end of desired GPA, is a GREAT thing plus you have the hands-on clinical diagnostics that many of us would die for.

My suggestion: talk to med schools, TELL them your GPA, how long it's been since the u-grad was completed, and what classes you'd want/need to take for MCAT prep.

Then do very, very well in those classes, very very well on MCAT, and let the chips fall where they will.

Do not let a substandard ugrad GPA stop you IF you can do exceedingly well now and bifurcate "then" and "now".

Best of luck to you!



Probably because of the OP's further PA education, it might very well not be an issue...I guess I wasn't thinking about that, so I am sorry.

Had someone that didn't have the PA background, then I would stand my ground...but jkp, you are right...in this case, the OP should not let this stop him/her in their pursuit.
  • Krisss17 Said:


Had someone that didn't have the PA background, then I would stand my ground...but jkp, you are right...



My GPA is lower and also 20 years old.

I have been told by quite a few med school deans, directors, asst deans, and adcoms, not to worry about my very old GPA and to focus on now. They will certainly see the old GPA but will also see the when, what it was for, and ... my life.

As such, I am getting close to a 4.0, studying like mad to hopefully get a 32+ MCAT, and not looking back.

ALL schools I talked to were ALLOPATHIC.
  • jkp2117 Said:
  • Krisss17 Said:


Had someone that didn't have the PA background, then I would stand my ground...but jkp, you are right...



My GPA is lower and also 20 years old.

I have been told by quite a few med school deans, directors, asst deans, and adcoms, not to worry about my very old GPA and to focus on now. They will certainly see the old GPA but will also see the when, what it was for, and ... my life.

As such, I am getting close to a 4.0, studying like mad to hopefully get a 32+ MCAT, and not looking back.

ALL schools I talked to were ALLOPATHIC.



Well, all I can say is that it is great to hear and I wish you the best of luck. I certainly do hope that the now counts more than the then! Unfortunately when it comes to the overall GPA, no matter how much and hard we work, that your past doesn't just disappear.


Not trying to hide from my past, nor change it.


My past made me who I am today - thankful for a 2nd chance, blessed with a great family, focused on a stellar BCPM gpa.






  • jkp2117 Said:
I have been told by quite a few med school deans, directors, asst deans, and adcoms, not to worry about my very old GPA and to focus on now. They will certainly see the old GPA but will also see the when, what it was for, and ... my life.



My experience with 20+ old "bad" grades is a little different.

Top tier schools except Harvard, placed a TON of emphasis on my old grades with the cavaet being that a 30+ MCAT along with my otherwise stellar app package, could make my app competitive.

Outside of the top 20, the majority of the allopathic schools I've talked to over the years, pretty much "ignored" the old grades.
  • pathdr2b Said:
Top tier schools except Harvard, placed a TON of emphasis on my old grades with the cavaet being that a 30+ MCAT along with my otherwise stellar app package, could make my app competitive.

Outside of the top 20, the majority of the allopathic schools I've talked to over the years, pretty much "ignored" the old grades.





My point! Thankfully, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Penn, Stanford, UCSF, "pick-your-favorite-top-2 5-school" will never see my bad old grades as I will not waste my $100 applying there.

However, look out Mayo! (haha. j/k... won't be applying there either as the laughter heard from the adcoms would embarrass my native, Rochesterian family :D)
  • jkp2117 Said:
My point! Thankfully, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Penn, Stanford, UCSF, "pick-your-favorite-top-2 5-school" will never see my bad old grades as I will not waste my $100 applying there.



Actually my experience with Harvard was pretty positive in regards to my old grades.

And I can concur with Mayo being "flexible" too. I was suprised I made their pre-screen "cut" a few years ago.
  • pathdr2b Said:
And I can concur with Mayo being "flexible" too.



I was being facetious - I won't be applying there.

The laughing from the adcoms would make my family hide (my family is fairly well known in Rochester - my dad was 3x cop of the year a long time ago, my aunt the nurse for Charles Mayo - yes, that one - and so on...)