I'm taking a breath and leaving for school, but I hate it when someone tells me to chill out. I find it dismisses my feelings But, I'm a big girl! I can take it!!!! Not really a big deal. Though, yeah, neurotic premed I am and yes, I know sometimes I do need to chill out.
I never tell people to chill but I always tell them
Rule 1: Take a Breath. It will help rant and rave event louder!
My comment about chilling out was not directed at you (or anyone in particular, really, just a side comment), gonnif, but I do like being reminded to take a breath. Took an organic chem quiz today and that was the first thing I silenty reminded myself to do. “Just breathe, Shannon. You know this stuff. Breathe!” Funny that I have to tell myself that but yep, good rule. Plus, I like how you threw in a little about ranting and raving, too, gonnif!
Smiles all around everyone.
Good, engaging, thought provoking discussion! At least us OPM’s don’t all just sit around posting endless “what are my chances” posts, right?
But it does make one look back at our lives and sometimes see how little we have accomplished. It is a sobering though for example that when Mozart had been my age, he had been dead for 16 years!
Is this really how some nontrads feel? I think that is amazingly sad!
"Accomplishment" is on the eye of the beholder. For me, completing this next set of educational 35+ year long goals, is an addendum to an already really cool life full of what I deem are "accomplishments". And honestly, I think most notrads feel the same!
hence why it was followed with
This was meant at humorous irony
you should never to take me too seriously
My bad, I took the humorous irony to apply to your rule #1, not the entire comment.
Hey, ya gotta love the open communication on OPM!!!
Richard and here I thought it was going to be a clip of “chilling out” AND being “back in the saddle”…the scene of Kid Shelleen in “The Ballad of Cat Ballou”.
Richard and here I thought it was going to be a clip of "chilling out" AND being "back in the saddle"...the scene of Kid Shelleen in "The Ballad of Cat Ballou".
Kate
Now I am going to have the sounds of Stubby Kay in my head the rest of the evening, and visions of Jane Fonda as a cowgirl and a drunken horse!
And in my final diss to traditional students, this genration of people going to med school is IMHO, the most entitled I've EVER seen! Entitlement is for medicine what potassium chloride is for one's heartrate, it's just a matter of time before the field is killed dead by it!
Soapbox dismounted!
Oh my!
I have to agree sitting in class with them is quite an experience.
Shannon, I cannot agree with you more on how out of balance the whole idea of dual degree truly is. Sounds like a design flaw of the main degree.
Such out of balance and government involvement is hurting the system.
Higher education is nothing more than a lucrative cash-generating machine. Universities create a false claim to instant success, promotions, access to better paying jobs, increase in job satisfaction and better work environment just because a title has been added after one’s name (BA, MS, MBA…) and government fuels this scam with easy financing (student debt). This is after parents already provided 12 years of free food and housing and paid thousands in taxes to allow ample time for a kid to concentrate on education and building social skills.
I struggle to understand why high school education is not enough to build entry-level job skills for most professions. Entry level accountant for the first couple of years of his career do nothing more than a lot of scanning, copying, organizing papers, learning spreadsheets, doing data entry and data upload and tries not to bring unwanted attention to himself. Most of them do not have skills needed to understand how business works (in a content of process flows, system interfaces and events that impact accounting) or even being able to research and apply accounting guidance. This is after BA degree, often MBA or MS and internship or two. In public accounting, where only top 5% of the brightest of the business grads start their careers, there is a joke that a sole life purpose of the intern/ first year is to make Starbacks and food runs for the team. Order lunch and dinners on time, make sure restaurants did not mess up somebody’s order and do not do something stupid to offend a client or a senior team member. And again a lot of copying, scanning, documenting what client is telling you (you do not even have to come up with questions; you are provided with a list), organizing the papers, and ticking and tieing numbers. Success in these activities, will guarantee a job offer and signing bonus for an intern and after a year or two of this glorified experience will open doors of the fortune 500 companies and trampoline further career growth.
Seems to me that a standardized test after high school, interview and may be a personality assessment would be plenty for a hiring manager to determine the best candidate for the aforementioned activities. Most of the learning will happened on the job and while studying for CPA exam and continued education for the rest of professional life.
The same is true with med school application. Why does one need a proof of completion of the pre-requisites, if the school gets MCAT score? Does it matter how the material is learned if it is mastered?
Such out of balance and government involvement is hurting the system.
Higher education is nothing more than a lucrative cash-generating machine............The only answer that comes to mind is greed.
I agree that greed has thoroughly corrupted the educational system.
However IMHO, I believe what the financial crisis/recession/depressi on illustrated was that "big business" was/are the real culprit behind the corruption since THEY were the primary beneficiaries of the bailouts.
"Government" as a whole is NOT doing "better", but Exxon, Apple, and Donald Trump just to name a few, never missed a financial beat!
And rather than "hate the player", I decided to "join the game" in the form of my own little piece of the entrepreneurial pie!
As someone who is planning to pursue a double degree (MD/PhD), I want to weigh in on this subject, as well as clear up what I see as some misconceptions about dual degrees.
First of all, if I reference/quote a post, I’m not meaning to pick on anyone. So please don’t take it that way. These are my opinions, just as everyone else on this thread has shared theirs.
A quotation from the initial post on this thread:
“I, for one would think it would be cool to have a little bit of legal knowledge to help from impending lawsuits.”
Yes, that would be nice. But that – a “little bit of knowledge†– is not the point of a dual degree program. Pursuing a dual degree is an insane investment of time and energy (for MD/PhD, usually 8 years). Then you have residency after all that. A post-doc if you choose to do so as well. The point of getting that additional degree, be it JD, MBA, PhD, etc., is to DO something with it. For MD/PhD, that often means going into some sort of academic medicine environment (that’s what I’m planning to do). In addition, to even get INTO a dual degree program, you need to show dedication to the additional degree, above and beyond the MD. For PhD, that means intensive research experience, and publications are an added bonus (this is in addition to volunteer work, shadowing, etc.). You need to have a career plan. Research interests. Not only that, but specific research questions you are interested in pursuing. You need to look at labs that you are interested in. You need to read research articles about your subject area. It’s an involved process not only once you get in, but preparation-wise. (I’m dealing with all of this right now, and it’s quite time intensive.)
In other words, you have to be sure you want this, and know what you want to do with it. Because if you don’t, A) you likely won’t get in, and B) the energy invested won’t be worth it and the time you spend will be incredibly frustrating.
In a later post in this thread, there was a comment made about money investment in dual degrees. I only know specifics for MD/PhDs, but these are usually fully funded (both tuition and living stipend) programs for their duration, both med school and grad school years. So the investment is the time/energy, not the money. They are investing money in YOU. And a dual degree is most certainly not, in my opinion, a “back-up†plan. You really need to be passionate about both degrees to enter these programs.
By the same token, I would never say that people not seeking dual degrees are “just†seeking an MD. It is merely a different career path. It is no more or less valuable, just different, with a different end game. Both should be respected, as should the people seeking them.
Just because something is not your goal, please do not criticize those for whom it is.
Very well put, Lorien!! I did not realize what went into getting admitted to an MD/PhD program. I just knew that I am far more interested in being a clinician than a researcher. Excited for you - glad it’s not me
Such out of balance and government involvement is hurting the system.
Higher education is nothing more than a lucrative cash-generating machine............The only answer that comes to mind is greed.
I agree that greed has thoroughly corrupted the educational system.
However IMHO, I believe what the financial crisis/recession/depressi on illustrated was that "big business" was/are the real culprit behind the corruption since THEY were the primary beneficiaries of the bailouts.
"Government" as a whole is NOT doing "better", but Exxon, Apple, and Donald Trump just to name a few, never missed a financial beat!
And rather than "hate the player", I decided to "join the game" in the form of my own little piece of the entrepreneurial pie!
Big business and government are different sides of the same coin...coins they take from us. Govt. takes the money from us gives it to big business and we give money to big business.
This post seems to have gotten out of hand and I am probably the culprit for igniting some serious opinions in the bunch.
I really had not intended to say much else on the issue, but I just feel the need to reiterate that my personal criticisms are about the culture, not the degree seekers. I hope I made myself clear enough in saying that I fully support the goals of others even if they differ from mine. (Thank god we don’t all have the same goals, right!?)
I do also have to say that while MD/PhD is fully funded I don’t believe all dual degree programs are, but I’m not 100% sure. It is a huge investment regardless of whether or not tuition is paid, and I think we can all agree on that. I for one find it awesome that there are many dedicated individuals who seek out more than one advanced degree. I think it’s great. I also indicated that I personally perhaps in another life or had I pursued this path a decade ago, would have possibly sought an MD/PhD program myself. I don’t believe my age limits me in seeking that out now, so I totally think anyone who wants to seek a dual degree can do it and do it well. I don’t want it badly enough and my personal goals are not in line with such a program at this point in my life.
What I had hoped to convey was the extreme competition in our current culture, the hoops some of us jump through to obtain our goals, and how sometimes the pressure is awfully high. I had also made it quite clear that my current thinking was at least in part due to an extremely stressful time in my premed journey as well as my interactions with my younger classmates.
I also wanted to mention that I feel that docs today and at least into the near future are stretched so thin as it is that I am personally a bit surprised at what seems to be a major surgence of MD/JD, MD/MBA, MD/MPH programs. I was being more tongue in cheek about the second degree as a back up plan to an MD, but it’s hard to convey that online, so I apologize if my point was taken in a way I had not intended. The healthcare issues our country is facing goes so much deeper, and more MD/JD’s or MD/MBAs will not solve the problems, but I can certainly see advantages for a select few who want to carve out a very niche career that will combine aspects of both of their programs very nicely. I think there is a need as well. Though, this is actually less of what I personally was trying to speak to. I was trying to hit a more personal mark about where we draw the line on our own ambitions and how we each personally arrive at those decisions (and they are, of course, unique to each of us).
I have zero “beef” with dual degree seekers. I do, however, have some “beefs” with a culture that demands excessive amounts from any one person. I am speaking to others like me who are perhaps doing it all, but sometimes feel they are coming up short. As I freak out over my impending application and whether it looks like I’ve done enough, are doing enough, etc. I realize that it is too bad I sometimes sell myself short. Humans, I think, for the most part, are prone to make comparisons with others and in the high stress environment of premed this can be amplified. The emotions and worries that come from comparing yourself to others are also amplified. This is my personal experience and it can change daily in this high stress time. I am on everyone’s side here. If you are a dual degree seeker that is great, if not, that is fine, too! The beating up and harsh criticisms are exactly what I hope more of us can avoid. Whether we are old or young, dual degree seekers or not, we need to be supportive of each other. I am very sorry if anything I personally posted seem critical of the choices of others. It is exactly what I had not intended, so maybe I missed the mark in expressing myself appropriately because, again, it is the “never can do enough” culture that can be frustrating certainly not the individual choices of classmates and the like that I am at issue with.
Very well put, Shannon. I think the “never can do enough” culture that you referenced is something that we ALL can relate to, whether single or dual degree seekers.
I wish you the best with your application and as you finish your degree. You can do it!
Thanks for the well wishes, Lorien! Best of luck to you as well as you get ready to apply. We are on the same application cycle so we are both in the midst of getting ready to put it all out there and see where all our hard work will put us. I’m confident we will both (and all us OPMs for that matter) find the best fit for us and that all our hard work will pay off in deeply satisfying ways.
RE: “As for dismissing the concerns of trads, I’ve been VERY vocal that I feel that there should be a minimum age before a person can matriculate in med school, and right out of undergrad just ain’t it. In fact, I think age 27 would be a GREAT start for a number of reasons based on my observatiions and experiences”
probably wouldn’t be legal, discrimination and all that, unless they went with the 35 y/0 limit you cited for the president and then use that as a precedent.
I certainly do not disagree, however. Many martial arts will not award the 5th degree blackbelt title of “master” to anyone under 41, because it’s just too young. And your example of the president is a good one.
More likely to be legal, and kill two birds with one stone, is to require a pre-professional license to matriculate. RN, R.Ph., RRT or etc. that would provide more continuity with the rest of allied health, while re-inforcing the role of the physician in the scheme of things. (or re-inforcing the AMA picture of that role, as opposed to the picture that others have…)
But, I'm a big girl! I can take it!!!! Not really a big deal. Though, yeah, neurotic premed I am and yes, I know sometimes I do need to chill out. 
