7 out of 10, rejection pre-interview. The other 3 I have yet to hear from. Boy is this experience every so humbling. While I was expecting this because of my MCAT score, it is still very painful. And while I feel the welling up, I cannot bring myself to let it out.
I need a drink.
What was your MCAT score, if you don’t mind me asking? What schools did you apply to?
Sam
22R (vr6, ps7, bs9)
Dartmouth: Rejected
GWU: Rejected
UMDNJ-RWJ: Rejected
UMDNJ-NJMS: Rejected
UVM: Rejected
LECOM-Brad.: Rejected with a card stating I am missing 1 credit of orgo
NYCOM: Rejected
UMDNJ-SOM (school of choice): No word
PCOM-PA: No word
NOVA: No word
Yes I am retaking the MCAT
Hi Gabe,
Have you started contacting the schools yet to get an idea of the reasoning behind their decisions?
If it’s the MCAT, perhaps you can try a Kaplan course or similar and see if it helps you boost that score a bit. I seem to recall in another posting you are in fact doing this, so sorry for redundant advice. Anyway, good luck and don’t give up; you’ll make it sooner or later!
Thanks Terry,
I e-mailed the dean at my #, an allopathic school, and asked. His response was that there was more at issue than just the MCAT, specifically my UG grades. He asked if I was considering PA.
Not all programs will be helpful &, in fact, some can be downright cruel. Hell, I will never forget it, my rejection from UTSan Antanio was almost immediately followed up by a recruitment letter for the resp therapy school! Of course, since I had been a resp therapist probably as long or longer than most of their instructors & that was clearly emphasized within my med school application - I had a very strong indicator as to how much time they had invested reading my med school application. Still pisses me off to think about it!!!
Another rejection I rec’d was a lengthy, eloquent statement of my being essentially qualified to be an ameoba. Had I taken to heart what they had to say, I’d probably have jumped off of a bridge. Of course, I lived in Dallas at the time & anyone living in that part of the country knows that there are no natural features of sufficient height from which to jump & gain anything more than a skinned knee.
The CRUSHER for me came from the Univ of Ark! Hell, I was a freaking alumnus (Resp School) & figured I was a shoe-in & was told as much before, during & after…until I rec’d my rejection. Turns out, the reason behind my rejection there was a TYPO!!! The application portfolio transmitted by AMCAS stated I would not receive my BS until 12/99 instead of 5/99 and many schools either explicitly or implicitly require a BS before matriculation. It was 200% my fault because I choose not to proofread the document AMCAS sent me to proofread. I felt I had proofread it until I was nauseous prior to submitting the damned thing. They made an honest mistake in transcribing…but I did not take sufficient ownership by proofreading.
All in all, I applied to an absurd number of programs & complete 20 allopathic & 5 osteopathic schools. I interviewed at 1 allopathic (Univ of Ark) & 2 osteopathic (KCOM & the Kansas City DO school). I was accepted outright at KCOM, accepted off of the waitlist at Kansas City & rejected from Univ of Ark.
Definitely not a stellar performance!!! But, from the moment I submitted my application & started the wait-on-interviews process, I started buffing my application for round 2. I ‘knew’ as an older applicant that it was highly unlikely that I would get in the first time. Furthermore, by my own nature, I meticulously plan for success & always, ALWAYS have plans B & C in reserve in case of set backs.
As I described in depth in my reply to your PM - this app cycle ain’t over yet. Granted, it ain’t looking to spiffy this cycle…but do not give up trying. Consult with Mary Renard - she is the queen of getting in off the waitlist.
From what you have revealed, your Achilles heel is your MCAT. Many schools, if not most, have either explicit or implicit cut-offs for subsection scores. During my app days, I recall those ranging from 6 to 8. Your PS score hurt, but your VS score is killing you. The saving grace is, your nemesis does not appear to be hidden (bad LOR for example). You know where your efforts need to be focused - the MCAT. There are tons of advice on here & elsewhere on MCAT prep…invest some time to read it. And, consider either a Kaplan or TPR course. I took TPR & felt it was worth every penny spent at a time we did not have too many pennies laying around to spend.
Furthermore, your old grades are what they are & they cannot be changed - period. Therefore, stop fretting over them - IT IS PURELY A WASTE OF TIME & ENERGY! Your current grades are fine. So, my only concerns over your grades are, how are your pre-requisites? If they are older or not-so-strong, you either need to retake them or take upper-level versions to strengthen them. If they are strong or not too old, don’t worry over them. Focus on exceling in your grad work or post-bacc (what ever you are doing right now).
Lastly, but maybe most importantly, you deserve some time to wallow in your misery. Hell, splurge on a good bottle of (insert EtOH of choice - mine would be scotch). A little self-pity can be therapeutic as long as afterward, you draw a line in the sand and declare the war to be on again at 200% intensity.
Yes, rejection SUCKS! And, nothing against those on here here who were accepted at all 130+ med schools in the damned country, but watching their seemingly effortless success can make the hurt all that much worse. However, let me assure you, those folks on here who have had, do have & will have such astounding success did not have it given to them - they worked their asses off to earn it. And, they can only accept one seat in one school. While you may not get into 42 schools - or maybe you will - all you need is one stinking ‘YES’ letter & you are home free.
So, chest out, chin up & get to work soldier!
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Yes, rejection SUCKS! And, nothing against those on here here who were accepted at all 130+ med schools in the damned country, but watching their seemingly effortless success can make the hurt all that much worse. However, let me assure you, those folks on here who have had, do have & will have such astounding success did not have it given to them - they worked their asses off to earn it. And, they can only accept one seat in one school. While you may not get into 42 schools - or maybe you will - all you need is one stinking ‘YES’ letter & you are home free.
This ending to an all around great post made me laugh, and I want to emphasize what Dave said that no one gets into medical school “effortlessly.” The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side. Yes, some people may seem to have everything they touch turn to gold, but they must give up other things in their lives in order to accomplish this. Anyone who says that it was “easy” to get into medical school is flat-out lying, or else has some self-serving selective memory.
There is nothing worth having in life that does not require sacrifice, discipline, and hard work to achieve it. We all have to set our priorities and decide just how much we are willing to give up in one arena to be “stars” in another. I think the important thing is to always show a trend of improvement. You can’t undo the mistakes of the past, as Dave pointed out, but you can learn from them and avoid repeating them in the future.
OP, you scored 22 on the MCAT, so don’t, for example, use the same MCAT prep method that you used last time, because it obviously didn’t work for you. On the other hand, a 22 doesn’t mean that you’re a “hopeless case,” either. You’re only a couple of points below the national average MCAT score (it’s a 24 for all takers), and with some serious application and effort, it is definitely realistic for you to raise your score five or ten points into a more competitive high twenties to low thirties range. Realize that the MCAT is a major hurdle for all students, and especially for older students. (Statistically, students over age 30 by far score the worst on average.) However, it is a hurdle that you must jump over if you want to go to medical school, so don’t approach it again without a good plan of attack, and don’t underestimate its importance or its difficulty. While you’re studying for the MCAT, make that one of the top priorities of your life; push yourself to study every day, not just when you “feel like it.” Dave suggested a prep course, and that is one of many avenues you can try. But test prep courses aren’t a panacea, and some students don’t benefit as much from them as others. Some students really like using Examkrackers home study, and that is another option if you’ve already tried a test prep course. There are always other options, but you have to be flexible and willing to do something different if you’ve tried once and not succeeded. Otherwise you’ll just keep getting more of the same lower than desired results.
FYI to you and anyone else who is prepping for the MCAT, we have a subforum on SDN where students can post questions and have them answered. We also have several threads with helpful tips from high scorers, many of them non-trads. The link to the subforum is http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=134
Happy studying, and good luck.
Dave, I read your PM thanks so very much. Q to answer some questions. I have been taking Kaplan on-line for the last 2 years. The first time I postponed the MCAT because I did not feel prepated for the Apr05 test. I felt very prepared for tghe Aug05 test however I ran out of time on all of the sections.
I re-signed up for kaplan because I need the structure. I evaluated what I did wrong. For starters, I did not have a set schedule but now I do so I am able to do all of the work. My study habit is different because unlike before, I do not need to split my time between classes and MCAT, I have no classes. For Aug05, I did not take any timed exams. This time is different. This coming Sunday I am sitting in on a practice test at the kaplan center. My wife will be administering timed Exams once per week from now until test day.
The online classes are cementing what I reviewed, granted I have not had orgo, chemistry, or physics since college (1994-1997).
I redid the diagnostic exam and here is where I stand as of November of this year:
Subject: Nov2004 Nov2005
Biology 51% 80%
Organic 41% 67%
Chemistry 35% 55%
Physics 27% 49%
If you have any other suggestions as to how I can improve my score, I would appreciate it.
Gabe
The KCUMB recruiter was here yesterday and he said they like to see at least 7s in all three areas of the MCAT. Also, you need some combo of the science GPA (all they care about) and MCAT that is equivalent to 3.45 Science GPA and 22 MCAT…i.e. lower GPA/higher MCAT or higher GPA/lower MCAT can make it to the magic cutoff. Also, the recruiter mentioned that they give many bonus points for things like recent clinical experience, significant “club” activity…ex. president of Sorority (his example), alumni kid, DO shadowing, and some others I can’t recall.
Take care,
Cat
It sounds like you are doing all of the right things. Maybe the only other suggestion I would make is to go over the explanations for each test, if you aren’t doing this already. Do this not only for the questions that you missed, but also for the questions that you got correct. You should focus on your reasons for getting questions right or wrong, and on HOW to approach questions, not on WHAT the right answer is or on the number of questions you get right or wrong. Practice test scores don’t count. So use your practice tests as an opportunity to learn how to be a better test-taker; don’t obsess over your scores on them. (I’m not saying that you are doing this necessarily, just cautioning you not to do it!)
Also, you may want to consider taking some of the AAMC practice tests. All of these AAMC tests are actual previous MCATs. But only tests 7 and 8 have been released since the MCAT was changed in 2003, so they are the most realistic ones for the current MCAT. Many of the earlier AAMC tests (especially 2 and 3) are much easier than the current MCAT is. You can still take them for extra practice if you want, but they won’t be as accurate of a simulation as the later tests are. So if you decide to just buy one AAMC test, I recommend that you try AAMC practice test 8, because it was just released last year (in 2005).
Hope this helps.
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Another rejection I rec’d was a lengthy, eloquent statement of my being essentially qualified to be an ameoba. Had I taken to heart what they had to say, I’d probably have jumped off of a bridge. Of course, I lived in Dallas at the time & anyone living in that part of the country knows that there are no natural features of sufficient height from which to jump & gain anything more than a skinned knee.So, chest out, chin up & get to work soldier!
Most entertaining post on OPM EVER!!!
And Q, I hate to say this but I found the question/answer section on SDN highly disconcerting. Ask a question others think is dumb, and all kinds of jack a$$e$ jump on your case. Personally, I would really have liked to have seen the MCAT thread here on OPM take off!
And to the OP, I’ve struggled with the MCAT too so you’re not alone. This year, I’m taking my time to prepare after having spent some time figuring out why I hadn’t been able to crack 30. I’m thiking that this time, I have my problem solved, and so I’m looking forward to the August 2006 MCAT.
Good luck and hang in there!!
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And Q, I hate to say this but I found the question/answer section on SDN highly disconcerting. Ask a question others think is dumb, and all kinds of jack a$$e$ jump on your case. Personally, I would really have liked to have seen the MCAT thread here on OPM take off!
path, are you talking about my Study Questions subforum, or the main MCAT forum?
Because I moderate the subforum very strictly, and no one is even supposed to post any responses to questions in there without being approved by me first. I can’t remember ever having trouble with one of my volunteers responding nastily to a student’s question. Now if you’re talking about the main MCAT forum, then I’d agree with you. It’s basically a free-for-all in there. Having a “safe” place for students to ask questions and keeping a repository of health test information were the main reasons why we started the subforum. Check it out if you haven’t already and if you have some time, and let me know what you think. Right now, I am kind of swamped, but after I graduate in May, I want to add a bunch of new posts to the explanations threads before I get busy w/ med school.Also, if any of you have suggestions about how I can improve the subforum, or would like to volunteer to help answer questions, please let me know. The only requirements to be a volunteer are that you must have taken one of the pre-health tests yourself (DAT, OAT, PCAT, or MCAT), or you must be a graduate student in one of the pre-health sciences (physics, chemistry, or biology, or a closely related discipline). I only ask for this b/c it’s hard to give advice to others on say, the MCAT, if you’ve never taken it yourself. Oh, and you can’t say something nasty to any of the questioners, even if they do ask something stupid.
Good advice all. It would seem that persons who are intelligent enough to run the world’s most successful medical system would also be smart enough to design an objective way to recruit and train new doctors. But apparently medicine is the antithesis of objectivity. Some of this is creeping into other disciplines also, but that’s a subject for another day. Gabe, are you by chance a URM? I know Dave’s favorite school (UTSA) is very interested in minority students; in fact it is almost an unwritten law that if you don’t speak fluent spanish - you ain’t goin’ there. Other schools like Baylor also actively seek out minority students. If you are a gringo like me, then you also are out of luck on this front, but it is something to consider.
Just remember that nothing worth anything is easy or free.
Best wishes,
jeffc
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Gabe, are you by chance a URM? If you are a gringo like me, then you also are out of luck on this front, but it is something to consider.
I sincerely hope this isn’t the beginning of a negative vibe on OPM. It’s pretty rare to see folks here making excuses for not being successful in dealing with the “system” of admissions.
I agree that I hope a discussion about race and matriculation does not turn ugly if that’s where this thread is headed. It’s ok to complain, but be fair about it, otherwise you can post at that other site with the nimrods in the pre-allo forum.
Please don’t hijack my pity party/need advice thread. I am certain that there are other members who are also in the same boat as I am.
Hey Gabe,
You look like you are improving - are you taking the April or August MCAT?
Maybe you should apply to more schools? I’m not sure whether you need to stay on the east coast, but maybe adding more DO schools would help and maybe adding some more private MD schools in the midwest/west would help too? I’m not too sure of your living/family situation, so that’s the only other thing I can see besides what everyone else has said.
Good luck. You definitely have the right attitude.
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Gabe, are you by chance a URM? If you are a gringo like me, then you also are out of luck on this front, but it is something to consider.
I sincerely hope this isn’t the beginning of a negative vibe on OPM. It’s pretty rare to see folks here making excuses for not being successful in dealing with the “system” of admissions.
I agree. These kinds of anti-URM comments are unhelpful, unkind, and worst of all, inaccurate. One or two people’s anecdotes don’t make a general pattern; there are just as many people who have the opposite experience. (I’m a gringa who did get accepted to Baylor. And I’m not even a TX resident. Go figure.)
The single biggest nonacademic advantage you can possibly have going for you at ANY of the TX schools, including Baylor, isn’t having URM status. It’s being a TX state resident. The UTs each take 90%+ Texans, while Baylor takes 75% Texans. These numbers are mandated by TX state law. Would anyone really care to argue that the percentages of seats taken by URMs are anywhere near that high at any of the TX schools??? Because that’s sure not what the MSAR says.
Edit: sorry, Gabe, for contributing to the thread hijacking.
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The single biggest nonacademic advantage you can possibly have going for you at ANY of the TX schools, including Baylor, isn’t having URM status. It’s being a TX state resident.
Well here’s a good point for gabe and any of us planning to apply to med school in the future. Look closely at the stats of accepted nonresidents BEFORE choosing a school! It seems that many applicants ignore this clear and simple fact and if your stats aren’t competitive, it should be a serious reconsideration.
Gabe,
I know your feelings well. I had to apply a second time, with an MCAT of 25, and I just didn’t want to do the beast again, so I didn’t. But persistence paid off.
What I did do was spread a really wide net. The funny thing is, that the second time around, with the same MCAT and gpa, I received a lot more interview invitations.
As to where to apply. Don’t forget WVSOM. I know they are expensive, but it is a good school and well ranked in primary care and rural medicine. They are expanding their class size to about 200 this year, and they are going to have a hard time filling it, I think (due to the out-of-state tuition). BUT, the tuition is worth it if it helps your goal of becoming a physician come to fruition.
Don’t leave out the schools such as WVSOM, VCOM, LECOM, and Howard. These are all schools which turn out good physicians and have a much wider range of students.
Hang in there and don’t give up!
Linda