Irritated by 18-23 demographic...

Nontraditional Premed Discussion
41
  • OldManDave Said:
I genuinely suck at remembering names, but a couple come to mind: Paul Oakenfeld, Enigma, Moby, Green Forest. There used to be an internet radio station called www.cableradio.com, or something similar. They had a Trance channel that was awesome! I learned of this place early in my MS-1 year & studied to it t/o my 1st two years of med school - until it went belly-up.

I will take a gander at my collection & give you some additional artists' names.



Ah ok, cool, thanks!
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www.pandora.com


It’s what all the cool kids listen to.

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Thanks, I will check it out…will they allow old farts like me there?

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That website is pretty neat, Coldstream.


OMD - it seems pretty automated. Basically, they identify characterstics of any given song or band; you tell them what you like, and they hit you with something similar. They also play with a bit of machine learning to really home in. It’s radio-like, in that you don’t get to select what songs to play on demand (which is presumably how they manage their licensing).

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Glad you like it. I’ve been lurking for some time now, and thought that I could do worse than make my first post a concise and informative one!


I like Pandora for a number of reasons. The genre stations are nice, for when you just want to listen to random stuff, and I especially enjoy the QuickMix option, which draws songs from your personal “stations” into what can be a truly eclectic and personal listening experience. Being able to mix rock, up-beat electronica, female-vocal trance, and punk into a single “station” is very cool.


I also like that there are some very well-known and popular acts playing, mixed with stuff I’ve never heard of. I’ve found a few new artists via Pandora, which I suspect is why they’ve got options to buy the music from various sources. You’re spot-on about the licensing, although Pandora will allow you to pause/skip music up to four times an hour, if I recall correctly.


Enjoy!

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Plus, without Pandora, I would never have heard the Master Singers sing The Highway Code (presumably British) as if it were a psalm. My life is complete now.

47

You know, my take is a little different. I found the “designated silent area” most places have one, you might have to ask…


As to the academics, I had quite enough to do to worry about MY performance, I just never worried about the cheaters, sooner or later the WILL fall off, try cheating on the MCAT, or imagine a faculty member writing a letter for a cheater? It takes enough HONEST effort they will SEE… The trip to medical school is a MARATHON, not a sprint, so sooner or later all will be known


Remember you are NOT 18 anymore! What a deal! Do you plan to make decisions like an 18 year old? I bet NOT, that is the beauty of doing this in middle age, you will less likely make decisions for reason that are UNIMPORTANT.


I am always amazed, “GEE, I think I will cut class next week because my BOYFRIEND wants to go to the beach”. “GO ahead dearie”, but do youhear that sound?.. it is medical school slipping away…

48

I completely agree with Richard’s statement about the cheaters. They will figure it out and it will be too late. I was sitting in a class on Monday with this 18 year old, who actually believed he knew the information based on the fact that he received a 20/20 on the quiz. He thinks he will ace the exam today. But, what he doesn’t know/realize is that he cheated his way through that quiz and has false hopes he will do well today.


Often times, I get peeved when I am in the library and it slowly becomes a coffeehouse. Irritated, yes, but I get over it. They are the ones who will struggle and to be honest, I was at that point when I was their age too. I didn’t want to study, I just wanted to hang out. Crap, I didn’t even want to party. I just wanted to chill.


My only advice to these kids is that if they do in fact want to become a doctor and/or any other professional, do one of three things: 1) Buckle down now and perform well, 2) Stop taking the pre-med requirements now and focus on the less demanding GE’s to get them out of the way or 3) Stop taking classes all together, do the hang out thing and work, then come back to school when ready. I actually got really excited when I was telling the 18 year old this. Somehow he believes a D in Bio I and a B in Chem I are going to get him into Stanford as a transfer and into med school within the next four years. If only he knew and/or would listen. I sure wish I had the advice and knowledge I have now for when I was an undergrad.

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  • anbvian Said:
My only advice to these kids is that if they do in fact want to become a doctor and/or any other professional, do one of three things: 1) Buckle down now and perform well, 2) Stop taking the pre-med requirements now and focus on the less demanding GE's to get them out of the way or 3) Stop taking classes all together, do the hang out thing and work, then come back to school when ready. I actually got really excited when I was telling the 18 year old this. Somehow he believes a D in Bio I and a B in Chem I are going to get him into Stanford as a transfer and into med school within the next four years. If only he knew and/or would listen. I sure wish I had the advice and knowledge I have now for when I was an undergrad.



I think thats great advice anbvian. I think all the 18, 19, and 20 year olds who visit oldpremeds are now the wiser for your advice.
50
  • the dude Said:
I think thats great advice anbvian. I think all the 18, 19, and 20 year olds who visit oldpremeds are now the wiser for your advice.



This is not directed specifically at "The Dude", but it pertains to everyone who reads or has posted here on this thread.

Ya know what? We do have a significant subset of the 18 to 25y/o who frequent this site. Most of them do not post, but they are out there - I am approached pretty often by them asking my permission to hang out to learn.

Frankly, I think we owe them more credit than this thread insinuates. While certainly their generation differs from our own...so did ours from those that preceded us. And, if you reread this thread, in many places, we sound like grumpy, stodgy old farts...a lot like our parents sounded to us when we were younger.

With that in mind, maybe instead of chastising them for not being like us - Lord we knows we sure as hell are not perfect - why not try to understand them & build relationships. You will feel & act younger...maybe even siphon off some of their vim & vigor...and maybe be able to teach them some of the valuable things you have learned over the course of your life. You sure as shit are not going to earn their ear by being a grumpy, old stick-in-the-mud towards them.

But, by giving them the benefit of doubt & acknowledging that you were once like them too, you might, just maybe, facilitate a passing of wisdom between generations. Who knows, through your leading by example, you just might help one of them avoud failing...or if they do fail, have empowered them to know that all is not lost. That they can still succeed through perseverence.

The purpose of OPM is not to condemn others for not being like us or for being a lot like we were once upon a time. It is, however, all about offering a supportive & non-judgemental hand to those who seek to become physicians.

Just food for thought...
51

I honestly never would have guessed this site had young membership. The upper half, 21-25, yes, but lower half, no. You learn something new everyday.

52
  • OldManDave Said:
  • the dude Said:
I think thats great advice anbvian. I think all the 18, 19, and 20 year olds who visit oldpremeds are now the wiser for your advice.



This is not directed specifically at "The Dude", but it pertains to everyone who reads or has posted here on this thread.

Ya know what? We do have a significant subset of the 18 to 25y/o who frequent this site. Most of them do not post, but they are out there - I am approached pretty often by them asking my permission to hang out to learn.

Frankly, I think we owe them more credit than this thread insinuates. While certainly their generation differs from our own...so did ours from those that preceded us. And, if you reread this thread, in many places, we sound like grumpy, stodgy old farts...a lot like our parents sounded to us when we were younger.

With that in mind, maybe instead of chastising them for not being like us - Lord we knows we sure as hell are not perfect - why not try to understand them & build relationships. You will feel & act younger...maybe even siphon off some of their vim & vigor...and maybe be able to teach them some of the valuable things you have learned over the course of your life. You sure as shit are not going to earn their ear by being a grumpy, old stick-in-the-mud towards them.

But, by giving them the benefit of doubt & acknowledging that you were once like them too, you might, just maybe, facilitate a passing of wisdom between generations. Who knows, through your leading by example, you just might help one of them avoud failing...or if they do fail, have empowered them to know that all is not lost. That they can still succeed through perseverence.

The purpose of OPM is not to condemn others for not being like us or for being a lot like we were once upon a time. It is, however, all about offering a supportive & non-judgemental hand to those who seek to become physicians.

Just food for thought...



Tolerance should have limits though, on the other hand...why should we not attack gross disrespect to others, cheating, etc.? Are these not objectively considered by society to be wrong behavior, and therefore should not be encouraged? I don't see what benefit someone stands to gain if we hand them some balloons and flash a smile and say "It's ok!" just to appear welcoming even if they're cheating on their midterms and plagiarizing others when writing papers. There's a difference between offering respect to the younger crowd, which I believe in, and encouraging them to conduct behavior which is not only wrong, unfair to others but also will possibly cause serious consequences that may damage or entirely destroy their goals.

I mean, the pre-med stuff doesn't even affect me anymore since I decided to do something different recently anyway (I just still peruse here for the hell of it since there's some good threads and everyone's mature for the most part), but regardless of whether the person's pre-med or not, they should not only be discouraged from behavior like the aforementioned but shown very clearly why it shouldn't be done in the first place...to do otherwise would be to invite disaster for these kids.
53

You make a valid argument Tim but (to me) most of the negative posts about the young people make it seem like the argument is not about a select minority but the majority of students today. I just do not think thats true. I might be biased because I am a bit younger and might be used to the behavior more than others here but I don’t think its as bad as many make it out to be. There are those who make noise during class, in the library, and even cheat on exams but I do not think that is the case for most students today or at least not to the point to disrupt most of their fellow classmates (such as ourselves) to the point they feel its difficult to get any studying or work done.


I agree with Dave, think back to when you were their age and if you were in college, I am sure you, me, all of us, were not saints all of the time so why expect much better from the kids today?


And like Dave said, they only screw themselves over in the end or as I like to see it more open spots for us at the next level!

54

I think you all make great points. I’ve tracked this thread without comment but, of late, have felt compelled to take a shot here as well.


I am barely outside of the aforementioned demographic. I graduated with a B.S. in Finance 2 years ago. I am 25 years old (recently) and feel that there are SOME generalizations that are a little brash.


In my undergraduate experience, I identified more with the nontraditional students than my peers becuase we generally had a similar work ethic and had some REAL conversations that were enlightening to say the least. Some of my closest friends, I met in my undergrad and were 28-35. I was substantially younger, had little experience outside of school but cared about PEOPLE and THEIR STORIES. It was the pearls that they offered out of consideration for me as a person that I still hold dear.


I had a considerable amount of success in my undergraduate career and I feel that, for the most part, MY PEERS worked hard as well. We shared a dynamic unlike many that I see in this thread. Granted- this was business school (not required courses for the general university population). Our honor code was airtight and violation was automatic expulsion. We knew who cheated. It was obvious…I also chose not to associate with them. Period.


I have made some great bonds with people OLDER than myself during my undergrad that have and will continue to last. They have been some of my greatest sources of advice and support in my decision to pursue medicine (career change) after two years of a successful career in the Financial Sector.


I am somewhat in the middle of the age bracket but want to reinforce that I believe I was a very driven, compassionate individual that would have loved an opportunity to develop a relationship with people like I see here who have a wealth of knowledge and experiences. I also believe that there are many like myself who you may find to be sharp, talented, dynamic individuals with a lot of potential to be a fantastic physician.

55
  • the dude Said:
You make a valid argument Tim but (to me) most of the negative posts about the young people make it seem like the argument is not about a select minority but the majority of students today. I just do not think thats true. I might be biased because I am a bit younger and might be used to the behavior more than others here but I don't think its as bad as many make it out to be. There are those who make noise during class, in the library, and even cheat on exams but I do not think that is the case for most students today or at least not to the point to disrupt most of their fellow classmates (such as ourselves) to the point they feel its difficult to get any studying or work done.

I agree with Dave, think back to when you were their age and if you were in college, I am sure you, me, all of us, were not saints all of the time so why expect much better from the kids today?

And like Dave said, they only screw themselves over in the end or as I like to see it more open spots for us at the next level!



Well, easy to look back on college for me since I'm still in it, and while I don't claim to be perfect or an excellent student, I do put my phone on silent during lecture (and I double and triple check to make sure it's silent or off during exams). As a result, I expect the same courtesy from others. If someone is loud in the library, you can leave. If someone cheats and say bumps the curve up, they are effectively causing damage to other students. Now, I'm sure the argument can be made that if the other students studied as hard, it wouldn't affect them...but if the person is cheating then they obviously have the advantage when it comes to that. I have not experienced that yet, however, so I am merely making an observation on that.

As far as the noise goes...well, in the library, it's inappropriate but whatever, like I said you can leave. Phones going off during a lecture or especially an exam? I don't care who they are or whether it's just a mistake or not. In lecture if their phone goes off, the teacher should have them turn it off or put it on silent. If it goes off again, they should be kicked out of the lecture. If a phone goes off during an exam, same thing. Otherwise, those of us who actually do want to learn and get good grades have NO choice when it comes to being in class for lecture or exams. They don't just screw themselves in the end when the aforementioned happens...they screw me too. Ergo, I just simply don't see why I should be considerate of someone who's that rude and inconsiderate towards his/her fellow students. Respect is earned, not given.
56

On the other hand, as an older adult, I’m not at all shy about raising my hand in class and saying to the instructor, “Could you repeat that? I just couldn’t hear you; it’s noisy in here.” or, “I need to move to a different seat to finish this exam. Fred’s phone is driving me nuts.”


I do agree that there are quiet places in the library where people ought not to make noise, and I will ask staff to enforce that. I will ask for rules to be enforced, or rules that ought to exist (like shut the heck up, you AND your phone, in the middle of the freakinn’ lecture). But I do try not to look around the room and think, “This whole demographic sucks.” Almost all my med school friends are quite near that demographic, and they’re very considerate, mature people whom I’m honored to know.

57
  • samenewme Said:
On the other hand, as an older adult, I'm not at all shy about raising my hand in class and saying to the instructor, "Could you repeat that? I just couldn't hear you; it's noisy in here." or, "I need to move to a different seat to finish this exam. Fred's phone is driving me nuts."

I do agree that there are quiet places in the library where people ought not to make noise, and I will ask staff to enforce that. I will ask for rules to be enforced, or rules that ought to exist (like shut the heck up, you AND your phone, in the middle of the freakinn' lecture). But I do try not to look around the room and think, "This whole demographic sucks." Almost all my med school friends are quite near that demographic, and they're very considerate, mature people whom I'm honored to know.



Yeah I definitely don't condone blanketing the whole 18-23 demographic--or any other demographic for that matter. I just think that there should be rules designed and enforced to protect students from other students who have no respect for others...that way you can get the education that you want from a class without some jerk getting in the way.
58

Dave, I do agree with your thoughts, pass to the next generation. To back up to my post about this 18 year old…after receiving Wednesday’s exam scores, he realized he has a lot of work to get to where he wants to be. He actually walked up to me in lab this morning and said, “Dude, you are totally right. I need to start really studying.”


I’ll be the first to admit, I was once in their shoes and when people ask why I am back in school, I NEVER hesitate to say why I am there, where I faulted during undergrad and where I am going. The general population of premeds I have met in my first semester back in school, have this grand idea that they can fly through undergrad and happen to land in medical school. And once I tell them what I am/plan on doing, they quickly realize, the med school magic carpet ride does indeed NOT exist.


As I was telling Tim earlier this week, (we happen to be at the same CC), these kids do look up to me and it does wonders for me. A small group of kids seek me out to tutor them on the material. They may not understand all the material beforehand, but they are obtaining last minute information that sometimes is not entirely taught by the professor. This only assures me that I KNOW the material and can teach it, but it also allows me to share knowledge about life outside of high school.


And a side note about Dave’s comment: " You will feel & act younger…maybe even siphon off some of their vim & vigor…" Totally true, sometimes it is just nice to hang out with these kids in the lab/tutor center. They make me laugh like no other. I actually missed those chaps when we were on Spring Break. Crazy as that sounds.

59
  • anbvian Said:
A small group of kids seek me out to tutor them on the material. They may not understand all the material beforehand, but they are obtaining last minute information that sometimes is not entirely taught by the professor. This only assures me that I KNOW the material and can teach it, but it also allows me to share knowledge about life outside of high school.



I tutor whenever asked myself. Even if the person doesn't get it that fast, feels good to know that you know the material that well and you're willing to pass the knowledge along. Shooting the breeze doesn't hurt either. definitely don't blame you there Ashley, it helps!
60

As a student of “horseology” (we have horses) there are occasionally lessons that we humans can learn from these amazing creatures that we have as loyal partners and companions (the horses I mean). In a herd, all the adults will watch out for the young ones - not just the colt or filly’s mother. That means teaching them how to behave in a group and mind their manners, among other things.


I think the non-trad student has an awesome opportunity and responsibility to mentor and help our younger peers mature. When I was initially going to college (in the dark ages) we didn’t have more mature students to bond with and learn from.


In return we get to absorb some of that energy that OMD mentions, and get the satisfaction that we are helping others who are walking the same path as we are.


Adam