Snooki is worth more than an Doctor..

I look at the expense of paying for school as I would if I were buying a business - the rule of thumb is 3-5x gross earning for a small business. If you gross $150k/year, that’s a business worth between $450k - $750k. Of course, this value goes up with specialties. So, you can see that even including lost earning potential from being in school w/o income for 4 years it is still (financially) worth it. Then you add the other, non-balancesheet positives of being a doctor you may find it outweighs the negatives. But, that’s my liberal analysis.

Motor City,


Not anyone can or should teach, and even those of us that can teach and teach well still choose not to because we don’t have a passion for it. Apparently you haven’t spent much time in Motor City Schools, because you haven’t seen what good (or bad) teachers can effect in children.


I was a teacher in KY, which is a notoriously underpaying state. I took out $100k in student loans (undergrad and grad because our state requires a masters degree within so many years) and made only $37k in one of the highest paying districts in the state. Most districts average about $30k for people with a masters degree, and $25-28 for those who only hold bachelors degrees. At income sensitive repayment for 25 years, I still wouldn’t even pay off the principal of my loans. At least as a doctor, even starting out with $100k in loans, I know that I’ll be able to pay off my loans and provide for my family. That’s security that I never had with teaching.


Oh, and my job was cut due to budget constraints this year. Wonderful, right?

Oh, and as specific as your username is, I hope you weren’t dull enough to use it for your applications, too, so that they can easily type it into google and find this thread…

Well, having been a nurse for 30 years, I would say that, particularly when I was working ICU, it was frequently US who saved the patients - not everything is a surgical problem. People with medical problems often need significantly skilled nursing care to recover, and post-surgical patients as well. The cardiac surgeon might do the CABG, but the RN is there 12 hours at a time afterwards running the intra-aortic balloon pump, adjusting it to the patients cycle to maximize cardiac output and renal perfusion and minimize afterload, and titrating the patient’s NTG, nitroprusside, dopamine, dobutamine and/or epinephrine drip.


Medical care is teamwork and EACH team members skills are essential. I’m not going into medicine because I think it’s “the most important job in the world” - it is surely VERY important. But if your house is burning down, a firefighter is the most important job in the world (something I’ve also done).


Regarding what you do when your patient spits on you, kicks you, curses you , vomits on you (one you left out - well, speaking from experience, you continue caring for them, although you might call security if they are too rambunctious for you.


Kate

Even though he’s probably gone, I just want to point out that people like Snooki and Kim Kardashian make as much money as they do because there’s a high demand for the product they offer in their industry. The president doesn’t sit back in his chair and say, “DOCTOR - $5,000,000! FIREFIGHTER - $3,000,000!”, etc. It would be nice if he did do that, but that’s not the way the economy works. Yes, going through school to become a doctor is extremely expensive, which sucks, but these universities are offering a valuable product and they charge accordingly.


So is it unfair for people like Snooki to earn more than a doctor? Yes, it is. But you could make that argument for a hundred different professions. I strongly suggest being angry about something else.

For the record, I’ve never been…nor will I ever be…“super liberal.” Not even close. Not even close to close.


But here’s what I know: It doesn’t matter. Everyone has ideas and opinions, and I value each one of them. There are things I can learn from all of you, regardless of whether or not we agree on our political ideology. In fact, I LOVE having conversations with people I disagree with, because I learn a lot…and either reinforce and bolster my own opinion or am shown something that gives me pause for consideration to change.


Having said all that, I find this forum to be exactly the kind of place we can talk about things that we disagree on–because it’s done with respect and without getting personal. (Love the coffee shop analogy.)


OP–please…step back from the conversation for a second, take a breath, and re-read your posts out loud. Would you say things in that manner if we were all sitting around a table together? Maybe you would…maybe you wouldn’t. But it bears some thought. I can tell you that lashing back with an “I’m just going to take my toys and go home” kind of mentality at the first sign of disagreement isn’t going to be a very effective way to communicate in any environment–be it a forum, a hospital ward, a med school class, a corporate office, or wherever you may find yourself.


Clearly you feel strongly about this topic. You made some very strong statements. So logically…You can’t expect everyone to agree with you, right? But please don’t just make the assumption that we must all be opposite of your belief system and therefore there is no room for you on this forum–simply because we may or may not agree with you on this particular topic.


I don’t agree with your original post for several reasons, many of which have already been stated. But you know what? I’ve seen some other posts of yours that I thought were fantastic, and I’ve valued many of your comments. It’s the nature of this environment. You state an idea, and people react. Sometimes people will agree, sometimes they won’t. But if we start bowing up and gearing for a fight everytime someone disagrees, things will downward spiral into the realm of “completely unproductive” faster than Lindsay Lohan’s latest jail sentence. (Come on…6 hours?)


I’ve disagreed with a lot of people on these pages. If this were a place where we all agreed on everything, it wouldn’t be a very interesting area to visit.

When did we become hated by SDN?


OP, I understand what you are saying but the way you have come across is rude and arrogant. It is unfortunate that our society places more value on the Kim K’s of the world rather than those who have chosen a feild of service. I personally do think that those of us who choose to serve society (Teachers, Doctors, Soldiers, Police, Garbage Men) do bring more value to our society than say (Accountants (my former profession) Bankers, Lawyers) but that is societies problem not mine. I can only do what I can to be the best doctor I can be. I value myself and am doing this for myself, who cares if Kim K will make more than me, or if she has more fallows on twitter. I won’t have taken on copious amounts of semen from black athaletes to become a doctor so I have that going for me.

  • BaileyPup Said:
When did we become hated by SDN?



We're not officially hated, but we get knocked on occasionally.

Personally, I like my advisor's description of the two sites - SDN will freak you out, especially when every pre-med tells you that you're a failure without a 4.0 and 4000 hours of community service. OPM cheerleaders will encourage you to keep trucking even though you have a 1.0 and a drug felony.

Obviously, not true, but it shows which end of the support spectrum our respective posters tend to be on.

Thanks for the nice words. I am not leaving, unless “Gonniff” decides to delete my account. There is actually an entire thread discussing Gonniff at SDN. He has deactivated numerous accounts of people who speak out such as myself. I think its ridiculous for one person to have such authority on here. Anyway, I’ll stick around until King Gonniff decides I am no longer welcomed in his Kingdom. I do enjoy reading the forums but it is obvious to me that I am in the minority when it comes to most of my views. I am fine with that. The majority is usually wrong because it is filled with sheep and sheep get slaughtered.

  • BaileyPup Said:
I won't have taken on copious amounts of semen from black athaletes to become a doctor so I have that going for me.



Besides the fact that Kris Humphries is half WHITE, I'm just wondering if the situation would be different if her Kims' ex's were white athletes.
  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
My main point is that worthless people such as snooki and kim kardashian are paid WAY more than those who actually do something for society.



MotorCityPreMed,

Nobody ever said life is fair.
  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
Issues such as tuition and pay need to be discussed.



Yes these issues can and should be discussed, but I think the problem is that you somehow got way off topic.

  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
I suppose you must be SUPER LIBERAL to participate in conversations here.



Umm, career military here. No offense, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree by making such a global assumption.
  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
I think it is safe to say that the majority of this site is Liberal. This means there is no place for me here.



Wait . . . what? If that's true, I don't belong here, either!

But seriously, what the other OPMers are trying to say is that it is OK to be angry, but unprofessional to yell -- and yeah, docs get spat on, pooed on, yelled at, threatened, and sued, but the fact is that if you can't find ways to cope with all that without blowing up . . . well, you can't be a doc. You won't be any good to your patients if you end up getting your license revoked.

I totally agree, though. The fact that Snooki and KimK make more than I probably ever will is disheartening, because it shows us where the priorities of American viewers are. There's probably a lot of stuff we could talk about with the American psyche, but that just makes me irritated
  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
Thanks for the nice words. I am not leaving, unless "Gonniff" decides to delete my account. There is actually an entire thread discussing Gonniff at SDN. He has deactivated numerous accounts of people who speak out such as myself. I think its ridiculous for one person to have such authority on here. Anyway, I'll stick around until King Gonniff decides I am no longer welcomed in his Kingdom.



I've got to be honest with you MotorCityPremed. It's coming up on 3 years since I first discovered this site (OPM) and not once since November 2008 have I witnessed gonnif or any of this site's admins ban anyone. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

On the other hand, there used to be a frequent poster here many years ago - njbmd - who is now a site admin at SDN and she has a notorious reputation for banning posters over there.

I'm under the impression that you are going through a very stressful time in your life right now and it's giving you a slightly skewed view of reality.

TicDocDoh, there’s so much I wanna say about your comment but I promised one of the admins here to be cool… but yeah, I was also banned by a “certain former OPM member” for being especially vocal in a thread where minorities were being THROUGHLY insulted.


Talk about hypocritical!


Hey don’t cha’ love it when I thread gets WAAAAYYYYYY off topic, LOL!!!

  • BaileyPup Said:
I won't have taken on copious amounts of semen from black athaletes to become a doctor so I have that going for me.



But you'd still be down with taking on copious amounts of semen from white athletes to become a doctor though, right? [<-- insert acid sarcasm here]
  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
Are we suppose to all hold hands and sing Kumbaya?



I've always been partial to the song "Free to be You & Me" myself.

  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
My main point is that worthless people such as snooki and kim kardashian are paid WAY more than those who actually do something for society.



MotorCityPreMed,

If it's any consolation to you, Kim Kardashian is now a woman over 30 with no redeeming skills or talents. In Hollywood terms, this means her "celebrity" is on borrowed time.

  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
I know there are many, many people over at SDN that despise this site. Good luck to you all.



And the feeling is often mutual!

I'm sure you'll have no problem finding acceptance and support among the grade-grubbing 19-old pre-med flamers over at SDN.
  • pathdr2b Said:
Talk about having a fly in your soup.

Anyone got a fly-swatter they can loan me? Or a can of Raid?



ROTFL!
  • MotorCityPreMed Said:
Thanks for the nice words. I am not leaving, unless "Gonniff" decides to delete my account. There is actually an entire thread discussing Gonniff at SDN. He has deactivated numerous accounts of people who speak out such as myself. I think its ridiculous for one person to have such authority on here. Anyway, I'll stick around until King Gonniff decides I am no longer welcomed in his Kingdom. I do enjoy reading the forums but it is obvious to me that I am in the minority when it comes to most of my views. I am fine with that. The majority is usually wrong because it is filled with sheep and sheep get slaughtered.



I was staying away from commenting in this thread but "MotorCityPreMed" has decided to mention me by name, perhaps it is time to add to the discussion.

Since my involvement with OldPreMeds beginning in 2002, and assuming full responsibility for this organization as the primary financial benefactor 3 years ago, out of over 8500 registered users, only one individual has ever been permanently banned from the site. That is the poster who is going currently going by the name MotorCityPremed.

Several times over the past 5 or 6 years, the poster who is going currently going by the name MotorCityPremed had self-requested to have his postings and/or his login removed in apparent remorse for outbursts, tone, etc. I have worked with him on more than one occasion to essentially publicly apologize and be reinstated on the site.

However this poster was only permanently banned solely due to his own public postings asking for information, assistance, and help in hiding his weak academic background and his self-admitted dismissal from an MBA program. That is obviously a major ethical violation that OldPreMeds cannot condone in any way, shape or form. To do so would put the entire organization in jeopardy.

The current thread of inflammatory comments and postings I have left to the members to police, which they have done so admirably with counter arguments and replies. I am very proud of the members who have participated in this discussion that, while strong and critical arguments have been made, they have been done so at, what I would consider, a profession, civil, and mature manner. And even occasionally funny.

As a side comment, OldPreMeds has been a partner of Student Doctor Network (SDN) almost since the inception of both websites. For many years, SDN was a sponsor of the Annual OldPreMeds Conference, paying for opening nite reception, costs for keynote speakers, and other items. Many of the founders and early active members of OPM were as equally active on SDN and were some of the first moderators in their forums.

As for my reputation on SDN I am often accused of annoyingly adding data, studies, and statistics to otherwise worthwhile thread of hyperbole, ignorance, and mostly misperception. I have this habit of aiming for accuracy and verifiable information.

It is perhaps illuminating to see how one poster here can cause some much turmoil in a thread that has a dozen or more people involved. Perhaps a similar effect happens on SDN.

Any comments are greatly appreciated

Thank you

I am confussed. First off, I was never dismissed from an MBA program. My MBA has been hanging from my office wall since August of 2007. I am not sure where you got that notion from. I think you may have me confussed with someone else. In regards to your reputation at SDN, it is not stellar. Yes, I certainly do have a weak undergraduate transcript but that was 10 years ago. My GPA now is a 3.8.


I am not here to start a war. The entire point of this post was to show just how messed up society is when it comes to who is valued and who isn’t. I will stand by everything I said. Medical Education should NEVER cost as much as it does now. Why would society want to burden those with debt who do so much good?? It makes no sense. I am not going to medical school to acheive great wealth. My current position pays well but it is not what my heart has always wanted.


I am willing to “break bread” with gonniff and lay this issue to rest. I wish nothing but the best for everyone in here even if we disagree the current matter at hand. Some of us might even work together eventually.


With this being said, my hand is now extended…